The COSC certification is something that gets raised quite often and the general consensus seems to be that it's an unnecessary expense.
I'm inclined to agree and it would probably just result in fewer(not enough) numbers taking it up .... if it were indeed an actual bespoke proposal.

I'd get it if the COSC movements received a higher degree of finishing, but it's just numbers, and on the whole, I think the majority of multiple watch owners here tend to be fine with standard accuracy.

One thing I have since considered, is the latest Dune Aeolian dial and perhaps the 3-6-9 layout adopted by the recently announced CWA LE.
But being a GMT, not having a date would be a little odd I think.
Perhaps numerals at 12-3-9, 3-9 and date at 6, or 3-6-9 and the date at; dare I say it ... 4:30(ish).

Anyway, at present, it is all a bit moot.

And from a personal point of view, I'm really very excited for 2025 ...

More details and new thread to follow in due course

StrappedUp wrote: ↑Mon Mar 03, 2025 8:56 pm
I'd get it if the COSC movements received a higher degree of finishing, but it's just numbers, and on the whole, I think the majority of multiple watch owners here tend to be fine with standard accuracy.

That isn't exactly true. It is more than just the numbers. Top grade and COSC get some better parts too. I can't remember which parts off the top of my head. The top grade is also adjusted to 5 positions with a +/- 4 sec per day to +/- 15 sec. It is my understanding that Top Grade is essentially COSC without the testing.

You can actually get any Sellita movement with added finishing. You can order Standard (basically all movements off the shelf), refined and tailor made. All at an added cost of course.

In my experience it is pretty much split, opinion wise. Some will only get the more accurate offerings and others don't care.

For me the more important factor in a COSC movement is the consistency over the rate. The rate can always be adjusted but a COSC movement will be more consistent where it is set. At least in my experience.

Absolutely, I hear you Rich.

Realistically though, to give anything like this a remote chance of coming to fruition/succeeding, cost has to be a factor.
Now if we were talking something like an upgrade from SW200-to-SW300, I could see a stronger case for the additional expense. Something with an observable and tangible benefit.

I'm not knocking the relevance and/or value of COSC, as we all value different things, but this is merely an opinion formed from countless forum LE design processes and other conversations had here on this forum.

StrappedUp wrote: ↑Mon Mar 03, 2025 11:22 pm Absolutely, I hear you Rich.

Realistically though, to give anything like this a remote chance of coming to fruition/succeeding, cost has to be a factor.
Now if we were talking something like an upgrade from SW200-to-SW300, I could see a stronger case for the additional expense. Something with an observable and tangible benefit.

I'm not knocking the relevance and/or value of COSC, as we all value different things, but this is merely an opinion formed from countless forum LE design processes and other conversations had here on this forum.

In this case the added cost of a GMT is already going to put it in the upper tier so I hear you. I also agree, the 300 that will go in the GMT is already a step above the 200 spec wise.

Just playing Devil’s Advocate here…

Are people more willing to pay extra for a purely visual “enhancement” (in the eye of the beholder, of course) than for something that might fundamentally raise the performance of the watch to a different level?

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 12:28 pm Just playing Devil’s Advocate here…

Are people more willing to pay extra for a purely visual “enhancement” (in the eye of the beholder, of course) than for something that might fundamentally raise the performance of the watch to a different level?

I'd elect to pay more for a "better" watch, better in the sense of mechanical excellence/characteristics and less inclined to pay more for a lesser watch with a funky dial, say.

Slightly re-worded ...

2 watches, A and B. Both look and feel identical, but one costs £200 more as it (*maybe) keeps slightly better time than the other ...

* I say maybe as my experience of the SW330, albeit limited in the grand scheme of things, is that it keeps excellent time. In fact, I don't recall having one that functioned outside of the COSC spec.

This probably warrants a new thread, or the revival of an existing one. We could even go a little crazy and add a poll into the mix. Let me mull this one over!

StrappedUp wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 2:35 pm Slightly re-worded ...

2 watches, A and B. Both look and feel identical, but one costs £200 more as it (*maybe) keeps slightly better time than the other ...

* I say maybe as my experience of the SW330, albeit limited in the grand scheme of things, is that it keeps excellent time. In fact, I don't recall having one that functioned outside of the COSC spec.

It is definitely true that the SW3x0 movements have better specs out of the box. There is no standard grade for these. The base starts at élaboré. They are also regulated in 4 positions as opposed to 3 like the SW200 (this is true for the élaboré the standard grade is 2 positions). The average rate for the SW3x0 is +/- 5 sec/day where the SW200 is +/- 7. The SW200 and SW3x0 don't share the same specs until the top grade.

I would have to do some digging but I think all models of the SW3x0 share the upgraded parts of the SW200 top grade and above.

rkovars wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2024 1:07 pm Loupe 35 - new Dune?
Loupe 34 - Bel Canto with a new movement with a free sprung balance
Loupe 33 - a new complication for the SH21 in a Sealander?

Taken from 'The Drawing Board'.

I’m very new to all of this—can someone explain what the 2025 update to the Bel Canto actually means?

In *Loupe 34*, it says: *'We’ll place the balance wheel in a far more prominent position.'* Is this purely a technical improvement with no visible change? Or will it be placed in a way that makes it visible from the dial, adding a moving element to the watch face?

If it’s the latter, I really hope they release it within the next 60 days—then I might consider returning my Bel Canto (which I’m receiving in two days) for this updated version. I’ve always felt the Bel Canto was fantastic, but some movement on the dial would take it to the next level!

When does CW usually realise new Bel Canto models, what month of the year? Like with Apple we know they realise lot of items but iPhones are always release in September

HAYQ wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 12:54 am

rkovars wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2024 1:07 pm Loupe 35 - new Dune?
Loupe 34 - Bel Canto with a new movement with a free sprung balance
Loupe 33 - a new complication for the SH21 in a Sealander?

Taken from 'The Drawing Board'.

I’m very new to all of this—can someone explain what the 2025 update to the Bel Canto actually means?

In *Loupe 34*, it says: *'We’ll place the balance wheel in a far more prominent position.'* Is this purely a technical improvement with no visible change? Or will it be placed in a way that makes it visible from the dial, adding a moving element to the watch face?

If it’s the latter, I really hope they release it within the next 60 days—then I might consider returning my Bel Canto (which I’m receiving in two days) for this updated version. I’ve always felt the Bel Canto was fantastic, but some movement on the dial would take it to the next level!

When does CW usually realise new Bel Canto models, what month of the year? Like with Apple we know they realise lot of items but iPhones are always release in September

In the same article, they are also saying "this is not Bel Canto 2, but it's a spiritual successor" and that the watch is "every bit as daring as Bel Canto". So my understanding based on this is that it won't be a Bel Canto at all (i.e. won't have the Sonnerie au passage complication). I could be wrong, of course.

Personally, I'm also very excited to find out more about this watch. I've been looking for some time for a nice watch with a visible balance wheel, so I have a strong feeling this will be it (meanwhile: my wallet cries in a corner).

alexqaws wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 11:18 am

HAYQ wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 12:54 am

rkovars wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2024 1:07 pm Loupe 35 - new Dune?
Loupe 34 - Bel Canto with a new movement with a free sprung balance
Loupe 33 - a new complication for the SH21 in a Sealander?

Taken from 'The Drawing Board'.

I’m very new to all of this—can someone explain what the 2025 update to the Bel Canto actually means?

In *Loupe 34*, it says: *'We’ll place the balance wheel in a far more prominent position.'* Is this purely a technical improvement with no visible change? Or will it be placed in a way that makes it visible from the dial, adding a moving element to the watch face?

If it’s the latter, I really hope they release it within the next 60 days—then I might consider returning my Bel Canto (which I’m receiving in two days) for this updated version. I’ve always felt the Bel Canto was fantastic, but some movement on the dial would take it to the next level!

When does CW usually realise new Bel Canto models, what month of the year? Like with Apple we know they realise lot of items but iPhones are always release in September

In the same article, they are also saying "this is not Bel Canto 2, but it's a spiritual successor" and that the watch is "every bit as daring as Bel Canto". So my understanding based on this is that it won't be a Bel Canto at all (i.e. won't have the Sonnerie au passage complication). I could be wrong, of course.

Personally, I'm also very excited to find out more about this watch. I've been looking for some time for a nice watch with a visible balance wheel, so I have a strong feeling this will be it (meanwhile: my wallet cries in a corner).

Yeah you're right. This kind of makes me feel better and I can now easily enjoy my watch. Can`t wait to get it tomorrow and excited to see what this new successor could be.

HAYQ wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 11:26 am Yeah you're right. This kind of makes me feel better and I can now easily enjoy my watch. Can`t wait to get it tomorrow and excited to see what this new successor could be.

Enjoy your Bel Canto, this is truly a very amazing piece!

HAYQ wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 11:26 am

alexqaws wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 11:18 am

HAYQ wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 12:54 am

I’m very new to all of this—can someone explain what the 2025 update to the Bel Canto actually means?

In *Loupe 34*, it says: *'We’ll place the balance wheel in a far more prominent position.'* Is this purely a technical improvement with no visible change? Or will it be placed in a way that makes it visible from the dial, adding a moving element to the watch face?

If it’s the latter, I really hope they release it within the next 60 days—then I might consider returning my Bel Canto (which I’m receiving in two days) for this updated version. I’ve always felt the Bel Canto was fantastic, but some movement on the dial would take it to the next level!

When does CW usually realise new Bel Canto models, what month of the year? Like with Apple we know they realise lot of items but iPhones are always release in September

In the same article, they are also saying "this is not Bel Canto 2, but it's a spiritual successor" and that the watch is "every bit as daring as Bel Canto". So my understanding based on this is that it won't be a Bel Canto at all (i.e. won't have the Sonnerie au passage complication). I could be wrong, of course.

Personally, I'm also very excited to find out more about this watch. I've been looking for some time for a nice watch with a visible balance wheel, so I have a strong feeling this will be it (meanwhile: my wallet cries in a corner).

Yeah you're right. This kind of makes me feel better and I can now easily enjoy my watch. Can`t wait to get it tomorrow and excited to see what this new successor could be.

My gut feeling is that we'll see something very similar to the likes of Garrick, hopefully at a much lower price point.

I guess cost will depend largely on whether the mod is done to a "peg" movement, or SH21/"SH21 v2".
Either way, it should be entirely feasible using femto-laser instead of Rose-engine guilloche, and finely-tuned machine polishing instead of black polishing by hand.

Really excited to see what they bring!