TWELVE X DELAYS

tikkathree · Post by **tikkathree** » Thu Oct 03, 2024 8:06 pm

Someone's going to say quel surprise and personally I'm not overly shocked but having placed my order in the first hour of day one (that's within minutes of the preview ending by the way!) I'm just a teensy bit impressed that some buyers - and I hope you're here - will get their watch this month. 'course I'm disappointed but it will be worth the extra few days' wait.

"Dear Peter,

I am writing to you personally to update you on the production of your Twelve X (Ti).

Our extensive quality control of each of the 120+ components inside Calibre SH21 has highlighted an issue with a batch of ‘second wheels’. Visible just above the six o’clock of the minute track of The Twelve X (Ti), this wheel is responsible for driving the second hand. The ‘teeth’ on this batch of wheels were found to be out of tolerance by a few microns, which could affect the precision of the movement. Since COSC accuracy is a standard we uphold rigorously across all models featuring Calibre SH21, we rejected the faulty parts and they’re now being replaced.

While some orders will still be delivered as originally planned, I regret to inform you that your Twelve X (Ti) is now expected to be shipped by the end of November, rather than the end of October as initially communicated.

As a gesture of apology, we will be including an additional rubber strap with your watch.

Creating a watch as exceptional as the Twelve X (Ti) demands time and precision. Although this issue has set us back slightly, we will never compromise on quality by rushing the process.

Rest assured, this celebratory timepiece will be well worth the wait. Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to reply to this mail or contact our Concierge Manager"

nbg · Post by **nbg** » Thu Oct 03, 2024 9:06 pm

I have just checked this evening’s emails.

I will also be receiving a complimentary rubber strap in respect of the delay.

I ordered after the preview, three days before launch day.

Neil

jbm90 · Post by **jbm90** » Thu Oct 03, 2024 9:11 pm

I guess you guys might have been unlucky in that the first batch of this component they got was faulty? Maybe the latter ones were fine, so some peoples’ orders will be on time

albionphoto · Post by **albionphoto** » Thu Oct 03, 2024 9:26 pm

It seems that I will be receiving a complimentary rubber strap too. At least I'll be able to whinge in person at WIndUp.

Post by **Bahnstormer_vRS** » Thu Oct 03, 2024 11:05 pm

Commiserations to those whose 12 X is being delayed.

It's clearly unfortunate, but somewhat ironic, that the 'out of tolerance by a few microns, which could affect the precision of the movement' part, is from the SH21 movement which has been in production for coming up ten years now, and not the 12 X itself.

Guy

Post by **welshlad** » Thu Oct 03, 2024 11:11 pm

I'm in the same boat, too, and will also be receiving a complimentary rubber strap with my watch in November. Like others, I also ordered straight after the preview, before it went live on the website.

Ah well.

JAFO · Post by **JAFO** » Fri Oct 04, 2024 12:23 am

Bahnstormer_vRS wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2024 11:05 pm Commiserations to those whose 12 X is being delayed.

It's clearly unfortunate, but somewhat ironic, that the 'out of tolerance by a few microns, which could affect the precision of the movement' part, is from the SH21 movement which has been in production for coming up ten years now, and not the 12 X itself.

Guy

A few microns? Are watch parts really manufactured to accuracy in microns? A thousandth of a millimetre?

Clach77 · Post by **Clach77** » Fri Oct 04, 2024 6:20 am

I’m interested to hear when others who are facing delays placed their orders.

Having missed the preview, I ordered a couple of days after it appeared in full online. Not to worry. I’ve had worse.

Trs1982 · Post by **Trs1982** » Fri Oct 04, 2024 8:14 am

On the plus side, the email seems to be very clear and outlines the issue and resolution timescale, which seems to be a better approach than when people were complaining about their delayed Bel Canto orders; no communication at all, or for those who did receive an email, it was just a "soz it's gonna be late, lol".

tikkathree · Post by **tikkathree** » Fri Oct 04, 2024 8:35 am

Bahnstormer_vRS wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2024 11:05 pm Commiserations to those whose 12 X is being delayed.

It's clearly unfortunate, but somewhat ironic, that the 'out of tolerance by a few microns, which could affect the precision of the movement' part, is from the SH21 movement which has been in production for coming up ten years now, and not the 12 X itself.

Guy

I've spent about four and a half minutes pondering WHY has this happened and of course, there's no way of knowing without holding Mike France' s dog to ransom

It sounds like a batch manufacturing issue so it's going to be an easy fix right?

Pre-order right now is for end of December which gives me confidence that this won't morph into one of those unfortunate one month, two month, three month headaches.

Post by **Amor Vincit Omnia** » Fri Oct 04, 2024 9:16 am

@tikkathree
It IS annoying, though, and it has happened before.

When I ordered the Twelve Ti, I made a showroom appointment for early May (original date) to tie in with visiting friends. The email came telling me that delivery was delayed. I had to rearrange, and to complicate matters I was going abroad later in May. So I had to make sure that they wouldn’t try to send it while I was away.

Fortunately I was able to rearrange both my friends and the showroom for the beginning of June.

Still, I guess a delay is better than an inferior product, and it wasn’t quite as bad as the effective 8 month delay on my car in ‘22.

Very annoying, though.

albionphoto · Post by **albionphoto** » Fri Oct 04, 2024 3:30 pm

JAFO wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 12:23 am
Bahnstormer_vRS wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2024 11:05 pm Commiserations to those whose 12 X is being delayed.

It's clearly unfortunate, but somewhat ironic, that the 'out of tolerance by a few microns, which could affect the precision of the movement' part, is from the SH21 movement which has been in production for coming up ten years now, and not the 12 X itself.

Guy
A few microns? Are watch parts really manufactured to accuracy in microns? A thousandth of a millimetre?

It will depend upon the part but watch parts can require tolerances of 2 - 3 microns.

albionphoto · Post by **albionphoto** » Fri Oct 04, 2024 3:44 pm

Bahnstormer_vRS wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2024 11:05 pm Commiserations to those whose 12 X is being delayed.

It's clearly unfortunate, but somewhat ironic, that the 'out of tolerance by a few microns, which could affect the precision of the movement' part, is from the SH21 movement which has been in production for coming up ten years now, and not the 12 X itself.

Guy

Philosophically would it be a watch without the movement? A good conversation in a good pub and couple of beers.

There haven't been a lot of SH21 movements in the last year or so. Small volume movements like the SH21 aren't in continuous production and the parts will definitely made in batches. I wonder if a start-up batch wasn't quite right, then escaped part-QC but was caught in final QC. At least it was caught and CW have made the correct response. I'll warrant that this was not a fun email to write and send.

Tolerances matter in watchmaking. There are a lot of parts which have to work together and are very small. Tolerances of 2 - 3 microns aren't uncommon which means that the watch industry has tighter tolerances for some parts than a lot of automotive and aerospace applications. A couple of microns off in a gear train could well affect time keeping and longevity of a movement. Or maybe a spring was too long, or too short and the escapement couldn't be brought into COSC precision as a result. I am the first to admit that I am not a watchmaker or precision engineer but I do know a man who is production director for a watch brand in Biel and the 2 - 3 micron tolerances are very real.

Redpat · Post by **Redpat** » Fri Oct 04, 2024 4:01 pm

Upfront it's only right to say that I don't have a dog in this fight apart from being a CW admirer and customer. However, what I do find frustrating is that CW continues to have a few supplier and quality control issues with components of their watches. I think it's great that the issue if true, was identified quickly and hopefully remedied for their customers with minimal fuss and inconvenience.
The Twelve X I believe, is a premium product that is comfortably on a parr with far more prestigious company's offerings with their premium price tags etc. so why are CW having these issues and what will they do to prevent further similarities occurring? Are they sanctioning or challenging their suppliers to prevent further issues? I only say this as it seems as much as I enjoy the brand they just don't seem to be able to sometimes quite get things running smoothly as other comparable businesses, or do they? Perhaps I do have an emotional stake in CW more than i realised and want them to continue to expand and develop their products and business in general.
To me, it feels like CW gets so much right but often just take the polish of what could be a top product with a matching service and all around experience.
Ladies & Gents, I certainly don't want to cause offence or upset anyone but this is the impression I've taken from the last several months of being a CW customer, buying into the brand and joining the forum, the latter of which I enjoy very much. Do you think these niggles are the same for all watch makers or is this something that is especially prevalent to Christopher Ward? I remember seeing a few mistakes in their advertisements and hearing of things such as not centering the text correctly on other models and a model where the crown often completely came out etc. perhaps it's just that now I've become more involved with the brand and use the forum that when there are issues they get highlighted and magnified.
Thanks
Pat

albionphoto · Post by **albionphoto** » Fri Oct 04, 2024 4:32 pm

Redpat wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 4:01 pm Upfront it's only right to say that I don't have a dog in this fight apart from being a CW admirer and customer. However, what I do find frustrating is that CW continues to have a few supplier and quality control issues with components of their watches. I think it's great that the issue if true, was identified quickly and hopefully remedied for their customers with minimal fuss and inconvenience.
The Twelve X I believe, is a premium product that is comfortably on a parr with far more prestigious company's offerings with their premium price tags etc. so why are CW having these issues and what will they do to prevent further similarities occurring? Are they sanctioning or challenging their suppliers to prevent further issues? I only say this as it seems as much as I enjoy the brand they just don't seem to be able to sometimes quite get things running smoothly as other comparable businesses, or do they? Perhaps I do have an emotional stake in CW more than i realised and want them to continue to expand and develop their products and business in general.
To me, it feels like CW gets so much right but often just take the polish of what could be a top product with a matching service and all around experience.
Ladies & Gents, I certainly don't want to cause offence or upset anyone but this is the impression I've taken from the last several months of being a CW customer, buying into the brand and joining the forum, the latter of which I enjoy very much. Do you think these niggles are the same for all watch makers or is this something that is especially prevalent to Christopher Ward? I remember seeing a few mistakes in their advertisements and hearing of things such as not centering the text correctly on other models and a model where the crown often completely came out etc. perhaps it's just that now I've become more involved with the brand and use the forum that when there are issues they get highlighted and magnified.
Thanks
Pat

This will have been very embarrassing for the brand. The customers affected are well known to the brand and have, for the most part, been loyal, long-term customers too. When this sort of problem occurs any modern business will have a quality management system (QMS) that will require supplier investigations, root cause analyses and corrective actions. This sort of problem can happen to anyone. It almost certainly happens more than we realise. We're just "lucky" that we found out about it because some forum members received and reported on the email.

There are some issues reported here that are movement specific. Problems with the SW200 will be industry wide but must be relatively rare since this is a mass production movement sold in 100,000s of thousands of units annually. Any SW200 issues will not occur just at CW. The mistakes in advertisements are embarrassing but not, I think, a reflection of the brand's production quality. We all wish that such public mistakes didn't happen. Some of them are, however, are common across the watch marketing sphere; Grade 5 titanium is not denser than Grade 2 titanium which is a common mistake.

The forum is a great example of social media amplification. If you are a forum member then you are going to read a lot more about CW issues. It is human nature to complain. If there is a problem you tell 100 people. If there is no problem you tell no-one

I don't think CW would have survived for 20 years if the quality was as bad as some of the posts on here make it seem. The occasional customer service crisis that we've seen over the years have been unfortunate (and real) but even they seem to have gone away recently. Maybe I should make a post about CW doing great. I'll bet very few people read it

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