Nice YT video of the gray model for anyone who hasn't seen it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JThOaR_xwDo&t=613s

manphibian wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 1:20 pm

albionphoto wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 1:02 pm

I found Rockwell B to be the most representative test and it shows that Grade 2 Ti and 316L are similar. It's not a good idea to believe what watch media says about hardness and scratchability. A scratch on a dark metal is easier to see than on a light and shiny one after all. I will also add that none of the tests Vickers, Rockwell, Brinell are actually representative of scratch tests. They are static indentation tests which is an entirely different failure mode. I have scratches on stainless steel and titanium watches so this is moot.

I don't believe what watch media tells me, but I do believe my 21 years experience as an engineering product designer
The most commonly used grade 2 titanium is softer than 316L stainless, whatever your links say. The hardnesses given have large ranges because of the different alloys that can be used, but in practice, titanium is most likely going to be less hard.

What makes it scratch even more is that the titanium gets a layer of oxidization on top, which is very easy to scratch, so in practice, even if the titanium underneath isn't scratched, your watch will have the appearance of being scratched, much more easily than a steel watch.

The good news with Ti is, it's easy to touch up with a scotchbrite pad or fibreglass scratch pen

Well you were the person who threw values out without context and asserted their merit. Perhaps I should say "whatever your values were" too. However, if we're talking alloys remember that Grade 2 titanium is not strictly an alloy as it is "commercially pure" titanium and not an alloy unlike Grade 5 titanium. 316L stainless steel is an alloy. You do ignore the process of oxidation for all titanium grades and this gives titanium its apparent healing property. The oxide layer will reform, albeit slowly at room temperature, which is part of the reason why it is known as a "self-healing". Changing the definition to "appearance of being" rather than actually being scratched is disingenuous. If you had reference cold hardened stainless steel used by Sinn or Damasko with Vickers values of 950+ then the argument that titanium is much easier to scratch is much easier to make. The stainless steels used in watch cases is about as easy to scratch as Grade 2 titanium. Most of the stainless used is not of the highest quality despite it being called 316L, in practice it's closer to 316 not 316L.

I think it's great. Considering all the innovation, quality materials, movement and all the development costs I think it represents good value. The size is right, the lume is beautiful and functional but I haven't pulled the trigger. Although I'm close, I just can't decide which colour I like and which would be the most easy to live with long term and on a fairly regular basis. This feels important as I see this watch as a great all rounder and something I would wear a fair amount of the time. I find that sometimes I can grow tired of a colour with no rational reason why. I've gone through the pros and cons and although the blue is nice, I think it would probably be one of the other two. I'm currently edging towards the black although I've just bought the black aqua terra and don't want a collection of mostly black and blue.
Thanks
Pat

Redpat wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 4:50 pm I think it's great. Considering all the innovation, quality materials, movement and all the development costs I think it represents good value. The size is right, the lume is beautiful and functional but I haven't pulled the trigger. Although I'm close, I just can't decide which colour I like and which would be the most easy to live with long term and on a fairly regular basis. This feels important as I see this watch as a great all rounder and something I would wear a fair amount of the time. I find that sometimes I can grow tired of a colour with no rational reason why. I've gone through the pros and cons and although the blue is nice, I think it would probably be one of the other two. I'm currently edging towards the black although I've just bought the black aqua terra and don't want a collection of mostly black and blue.
Thanks
Pat

You are getting quite busy, Pat. The little collection seems to be rapidly becoming a big one.

I really like it, but won’t be buying one at this stage.

Neil

JAFO wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 4:55 pm

Redpat wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 4:50 pm I think it's great. Considering all the innovation, quality materials, movement and all the development costs I think it represents good value. The size is right, the lume is beautiful and functional but I haven't pulled the trigger. Although I'm close, I just can't decide which colour I like and which would be the most easy to live with long term and on a fairly regular basis. This feels important as I see this watch as a great all rounder and something I would wear a fair amount of the time. I find that sometimes I can grow tired of a colour with no rational reason why. I've gone through the pros and cons and although the blue is nice, I think it would probably be one of the other two. I'm currently edging towards the black although I've just bought the black aqua terra and don't want a collection of mostly black and blue.
Thanks
Pat

You are getting quite busy, Pat. The little collection seems to be rapidly becoming a big one.

Hi @JAFO

Yes it's become a fascination quite quickly. I was never in a position for most of my life where I able to even consider a few of the nicer things. Now as I creep towards a BIG birthday (feels more like a sprint if I'm honest), I am able to take a minute and realise what I really would like to immerse myself in and with. Most watches that I would have liked were always out of my reach so I never bothered to take the time to consider all the workmanship and design that comes (hopefully) with a decent timepiece.
So yes, I am trying to build a small collection of pieces that I feel will give me enjoyment and something to stare at and fiddle with . Most importantly, something that I will wear regularly.
I was warned when i started but I fear it was already to late, the bug had bitten.
Thanks
Pat

I'm a bit underwhelmed. When CW trailed a new Sports watch I hadn't anticipated a C60 variant.

Also not sure that Ti, lumed bits and bobs, a crown guard and 1mm are worth a £1k increment over the SS version!

rkovars wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 2:52 pm I have never warmed to the 300 bezel in general..Removing the minute markers from the steel ring is an improvement to me but the outer bezel is a miss for me too. I have never liked that style of bezel with no minute marks. I like a fully graduated bezel best.

If this had a bezel like the mk1 Dartmouth it might be damn near perfect!

I HAVE SEEN IT AND HELD IT IN THE METAL...It is awesome, looks great, wears well, and so on.

I was told it was going to be $1995 and I thought: yeah, sign me up...But, did not realize it was GBP and would ultimately be $2390US.

For me, it gets to close to other options (both new and used) for the money.
I did not include tax here because that will be dependent on the US state where a person lives.
2,390.00 MSRP
163.76 Import Duty
2,553.76 Actual Cost


For me, the actual cost is 2,765.87 and I am not a buyer at that price. I think it is an amazing watch but I do not love it that much.
2,390.00 MSRP
163.76 Import Duty
212.11 NYS/NYC tax .08875
2,765.87 Actual Cost

@nycWATCHnerd

Surely £1985 includes UK vat at 20%, so net of Vat it ought to be £1650

I can't see how £1650 can equate to $2390, which is an exchange rate of 1.44.

The rate seems to be 1.32, higher than I thought, but that ought to be less than $2200 as a base cost to the US.

You're getting to about 15% uplift though, so not to different to our taxes now.

JAFO wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 6:12 pm @nycWATCHnerd

Surely £1985 includes UK vat at 20%, so net of Vat it ought to be £1650

I can't see how £1650 can equate to $2390, which is an exchange rate of 1.44.

The rate seems to be 1.32, higher than I thought, but that ought to be less than $2200 as a base cost to the US.

You're getting to about 15% uplift though, so not to different to our taxes now.

It’s been my experience that CW’s USD pricing is not simply a straight exchange from GBP to USD. The last two items I bought from CW I bought in GBP because with the exchange rate it was a better deal than their USD pricing. Perhaps that’s reflected in these numbers?

@JAFO @jkbarnes

As I mentioned in a different thread a few weeks ago (when the exchange rate was 1.28), I noticed that CWL increases their US prices about 15% to deal with currency fluctuations (not unlike many other brands).

Purchased by a US person in GBP, it is cheaper than a US person paying in dollars: 1916.48 GBP x 1.32 (today's exchange rate) = $2,529.75US

...But most people do not know they can or how to do this so many/most US customers will purchase in dollars on the US site.

I am exactly the same. $2,390 is indeed the ex-VAT USD price so given the fairly punitive FX rate I always purchase in GBP and did in this case too. I'm sure the credit card company will give a better rate if your card is USD-denominated.

jkbarnes wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 6:20 pm It’s been my experience that CW’s USD pricing is not simply a straight exchange from GBP to USD. The last two items I bought from CW I bought in GBP because with the exchange rate it was a better deal than their USD pricing. Perhaps that’s reflected in these numbers?

And this is why for 2 out of my 3 CWL purchases, I paid in GBP.
One had to be paid in US currency because the coupon I received (don't ask because I won't tell) only worked on the US site in US currency.

American Express does not charge foreign transaction fees and uses that day's current exchange rate so (for me) it is the best card to use.

The other downside for US customers right now is that the dollar is getting weaker compared to the GBP during the past few weeks.

nycWATCHnerd wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 6:33 pm

jkbarnes wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 6:20 pm It’s been my experience that CW’s USD pricing is not simply a straight exchange from GBP to USD. The last two items I bought from CW I bought in GBP because with the exchange rate it was a better deal than their USD pricing. Perhaps that’s reflected in these numbers?

And this is why for 2 out of my 3 CWL purchases, I paid in GBP.
One had to be paid in US currency because the coupon I received (don't ask because I won't tell) only worked on the US site in US currency.

American Express does not charge foreign transaction fees and uses that day's current exchange rate so (for me) it is the best card to use.

I just ran the numbers on the Lumeire on the strap. With included taxes (duty and MD state tax), it was $167 cheaper to order in GBP. That’s based on Mastercard’s current published exchange rate and no service fee on my card. Not buying it though. Still too rich for my blood!