MarkingTime wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:52 pm

Geefiasco wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:17 pm Does anyone else reckon in around 3-4 years time the entire CW range will be priced right beneath Omega and Tudor?

I notice a few comments about the increase in price, but not many seem to appreciate the increase in complexity and enhanced features that don't come for free.
This is a very nice watch that we are discussing and it is chock full of nice features that you don't see on many other watches, this will sell well, no doubt about it.
I suspect that some of these features could cross over to the steel versions and if the SW300 was dropped in favour of the SW200, a few hundred would be shaved off of the price, but that wouldn't then, be the same watch.

I think that there might be scope for a higher end version too at some point, as the case size might allow the use of the SH21, the real "Ultimate", if you will.

@MarkingTime my thoughts too on the sh21, I think if they added that movement it would be the ultimate trident. I imagine the cost would rise by around £500 but I'd be happy to pay that. Not that there is anything wrong with the movement used, it's just the sh21 is exclusive to CW and fits in with the title of ultimate for me. Still, I'm going to probably by one today anyway.
Thanks
Pat

^^^^ If an SH21 movement were to be used, it would add several mm to the thickness of the watch. .

Guy

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Bahnstormer_vRS wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2024 8:10 am ^^^^ If an SH21 movement were to be used, it would add several mm to the thickness of the watch. .

Guy

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Thanks @Bahnstormer_vRS . I didn't realise it was that much thicker. That may well defeat the purpose of a slick and lightweight diver!
Pat

@Redpat

The SW300-1 is a fairly thin movement. Using the SH21 (it has been used in a number of C60s) would have compromised case height, which they were keen to flag up.

Fantastic movement though it is, it’s hardly XXS or Size 0 and the watches containing it tend to be big ole lumps.

You can’t have your cake and eat it…because if you eat the cake the dress won’t fit.

EDIT: sorry, Guy and I have a habit of simultaneously posting at this time of day!

@Amor Vincit Omnia I think would prefer to have the thin, light and slick case it has, it's the current overall aesthetic that I like. I think that you are right, adding the sh21 would spoil the purpose of this particular project.
As for cake, that ship sailed a long time ago. I've had my cake many, many times and can confirm that the dress certainly doesn't fit anymore and never will again. .
Thanks
Pat

If you compare the case thickness of the Twelve Ti (SW300-1) and the Twelve X (SH21), the SH21 adds 3.35mm which would make the Lumière a chunky 14.2mm thick if it used the in-house movement.

I don't think it's thickness per se. The C60, 600m WR is about 14mm thick, but is still a pleasant wear. The C60 Pro 300 is 11.5mm in comparison.

The design can mitigate the thickness. Even so, it makes sense to try to design for slimness, rather than bulk. It's a great marketing point if nothing else.

You could probably go handwound and take off another mm or so. I wouldn't have any problem with that.

Geefiasco wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:17 pm Does anyone else reckon in around 3-4 years time the entire CW range will be priced right beneath Omega and Tudor?

Not at the rate that Omega have been increasing their prices.

I am waiting for my Twelve Ti to arrive. This new Lumiere does nothing for me and am happy I ordered the Twelve Ti since the technical specs are pretty much the same. I don’t like the Lumiere indices and never got into the Lume rage.

@maclink The lume on the Twelve Ti is noticeable but quite gentle. I can do with or without lume, but I rather like it.

Here we are . . . .












I've put it onto a black & white #tide strap for now, and will adjust the bracelet this evening.

Beautifully light and smooth action to wind and set the time. Bezel firm, but not stiff, and smooth with a positive click on each step.

Guy

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Congratulations, Guy. Another step closer to the buffers!

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Outside with the sun glinting on the stipple effect of the dial.





Guy

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MarkingTime wrote: ↑Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:29 pm Titanium is not chosen for its hardness and scratch resistance, it's desirable property is its strength to weight ratio.
Grade 2 is used because it is significantly easier (cheaper) to work with than grade 5. Grade 5 titanium will bring increased tooling costs.

There are lots of reasons to choose a material. For watches I would say you choose it for light weight for a given strength as you say, marketing purposes (ohhh, look it's titanium) and aesthetics. Then it's a matter of what you want to do with it. Grade 5 titanium will certainly have higher machining costs due to its hardness. It tends to be used for simpler cases with fewer different finishes. Grade 2 is denser than Grade 5 and easier to machine and so it allows relatively complex cases like the Lumiere's at a lower (but not low) machining cost. Grade 5 titanium has another benefit though. There's a lot of it on the market. It's called "aerospace grade" for a reason. A lot of it is used in high volume applications like aircraft. That means it is cheaper and easier to source.

I know this comparison isn't perfect but it is illustrative. TMS Titanium sell Grade 2 and Grade 5 titanium rods.

Grade 2 rod - 0.312" diameter x 69.2" long is $89/rod
Grade 5 rod - 0.3125" diameter x 71.25" long is $95.51/rod

This doesn't seem like much but if you're buying enough to run a factory it will add up quickly as the Grade 5 rod is both longer and wider (diameter). Now you wouldn't use 0.3" diameter rod for watch cases but the principle applies to larger diameter rods as well.

AT the end of the day you pick the material that meets your needs at the lowest cost. Those needs might be weight of finished article, cost to make finished article, aesthetics of finished article and so on. In the case of the Bel Canto, CW chose Grade 5 because of the resonance they needed. Blancpain chose Grade 23 because they're well, Blancpain and can afford both the material and to make cases with it.

In most instance, and being cynical, I suspect that a brand goes to a case manufacturer and says I want 1,000 of this case in titanium, what's cheapest? Then some marketing magic is applied to justify the choice.

Looks lovely

Bahnstormer_vRS wrote: ↑Fri Aug 30, 2024 10:47 am Here we are . . . .












I've put it onto a black & white #tide strap for now, and will adjust the bracelet this evening.

Beautifully light and smooth action to wind and set the time. Bezel firm, but not stiff, and smooth with a positive click on each step.

Guy

Sent from my Galaxy S23 Ultra using Tapatalk