^^^ A very interesting and balanced view. Admire without desire. I found myself aligning completely with his views.

Bahnstormer_vRS wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2024 11:04 am Viewpoint from Watchgecko.




Guy

Sent from my Galaxy S23 Ultra using Tapatalk

I feel very much the same as he does. I admire the work that has gone into the watch and understand why the price is justified but style wise, it's just not for me.

Bahnstormer_vRS wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2024 10:56 am Whether, as fitted in The Twelve X (Ti), we've got the SH21 2.0 is maybe open to debate. Certainly, the reworked bridges and new machined platine go a long way to making it an SH21 2.0.

Are you able to point these out Guy?

I'm genuinely interested to know what CW has done, because looking back at the Concept, the movement looks identical apart from new rotor, different finishing, and they've lopped the 'twin flag', sticky-out bit off the dial-side.

The Twelve only appears to have a reduced thickness over the C60 version due to lower WR requirement and not because of any work CW has done making SH21 thinner.

^^^^ @StrappedUp

I can't put my finger (mouse) on the info at the moment, Ryan, but Will Brackfield has said that the bridges 'have been reworked changing the angle from 30 degrees to 50 degrees to get a better presence and light reflection.'

I believe he mentioned this in Monday's preview.

Hope this helps.

Guy

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2024 11:20 am ^^^ A very interesting and balanced view. Admire without desire. I found myself aligning completely with his views.

Likewise, Steve.

A watch can be appreciated for its technical excellence, attention to detail, and finishing, but not the overall concept.

@BobMunro The word “industrial” had me running for cover from the get-go. But you have the advantage of knowing where I grew up. I want Granada and Florence in my designs, not Burslem.

I wish it were manually wound and thinner. In my experience, the automatic winding is the SH21’s weakest feature, and with 120 hours it’s not unreasonable to need to wind once a week. Save that millimeter. Someone let Mike know!

I am a fan of the C12X. I liked and own a C60 Concept and a C7 Apex and used to own a C60 Apex. I was not a fan of the "the Twelve" range as I always thought the dial and indices were over the top. The dial was turned up to 12, as it were. The 12X lets me get into the integrated bracelet trend.

The 12X has a nod to the C7 Apex with the lume ring around the dial and the C60 Concept with the Globolight(C) lume pip at 12 o'clock. They have done a good job of updating the Sh21 to make the view through the case back as interesting as the view from the front. The C60 Concept was a bit bland from the back and the 12X remedies this.

This probably isn't the oft-rumoured SH21 V2 but the launch of the C60 Concept also showed different variations on the skeleton concept and I like the one in the 12X. I can't help wondering if the FS01 has put that project on the back-burner, or maybe the changes weren't working and so the project has been dropped. CW aren't saying but if they can continue to evolve SH21 V1 like this I don't really mind, or care.

I'm a fan. It's the right size and visually interesting from the front and back. Any skeleton watch will have compromises in terms of legibility and I normally prefer to prioritise legibility in a watch but will accept the compromise if it looks good. The C12X does look good. I have paid my deposit and now have to wait until October. I just hope I get mine before WindUp NYC in October. Not that I'm going to flex... no... surely not

@StevenFriebe

The justification given by Mike and Will was that the automatic movement would make for more of an everyday watch.

FWIW, I prefer hand winding movements too, but I’m fine with automatics.

Worth 1 mm? Discuss.

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2024 12:03 pm @StevenFriebe

The justification given by Mike and Will was that the automatic movement would make for more of an everyday watch.

FWIW, I prefer hand winding movements too, but I’m fine with automatics.

Worth 1 mm? Discuss.

Worth it? Yes. But as you know I don't mind a thicker watch. I did find the comments on CWs instagram about making this 36mm quite amusing though.

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: ↑Thu Apr 25, 2024 12:03 pm @StevenFriebe

The justification given by Mike and Will was that the automatic movement would make for more of an everyday watch.

FWIW, I prefer hand winding movements too, but I’m fine with automatics.

Worth 1 mm? Discuss.

MF and Will have a good reason for it and I agree with them. I’m glad they did actually think on it and make the conscious decision.

It would have made more of a difference had the watch not been titanium. As is, the thickness is reasonably thin for the case size, and the whole package sits REALLY nice on the wrist due to the titanium lightness.

Just to show my credentials as a material science nerd I did notice that the Watchgecko video claimed that Grade 5 titanium was denser than Grade 2 titanium. According to the American Society of Metals (ASM) the density of Grade 2 titanium is 4.51 g/cc whist the density of Grade 5 titanium is 4.43 g/cc. I wonder how many people will check the details from the CW press release as this is likely where the error came from.

A definite no for me. Don't really get skeleton watches and even less so with such an industrial look. Also, I actually prefer a stainless watch/bracelet. I like the weight and the look of stainless, titanium feels dull and grey in comparison.

Having previously purchased the SH21 Snow Leopard, the cost differential seems enormous. Given the months of delays to supply the Snow Leopard, I wouldn't be prepared to part with all that cash on a promise again.

Seeing as many people are complaining about the price, I reckon CW would be smart to release a stainless steel version for somewhere around the £3k mark. I could see that tempting many people who won't pay £4120 for the titanium.

I'm just hopeful that they get back to releasing new 36mm stainless steel variants with more masculine dials and maybe even the upgraded Sellita movement.

Oh gosh, it's launch day lunchtime and the comments are a-flowing well which is a good thing. Pity the watch which is launched to a stunning indifference.

Having read every post prior to this one I want to say "me too!" to many of the things already said: positive points and negative ones, principled points and personal ones.

Is the Twelve X not different enough from the Concept? Well, plenty of my CW watches (and my other brands for that matter) share common characteristics and dial and bezel colour might be the only significant variable.

Was the Concept "better" for being an LE? Only 210 of us were able order a Concept from new so the implication that the differences between Concept and Twelve X aren't big enough afffects only 210 of us. Actually I've come to terms with having two of my SH21 watches in skeletal cases and my guess is that some of the other 209 of you might feel the same.

The exclusivity, the cachet of a Limited Edition? I have a clear memory of knowing I needed to jump in with both feet when the Concept was launched even though I was totally unsure how I'd take to the skeletal case thing (the outcome is that we will never be parted!). There wasn't time to sleep on it, to mull it over, it had to be done.

I guess that the mark of a succesful watch company is not so much in occasional liimited editions but better measured through longer production runs: this is where the Bel Canto seems to be, helping CW to climb higher than its competitors.

Hasn't CW always produced watches across a price range and are things any different today? From where do we get the notion that the brand must forever be pegged down to totally accessible price levels and why would we want to hold the company back?

We all know of the BC effect with orders placed and manufacture / production seemingly going backwards: I applaud Mike France for declaring that there'd be short order runs for the Twelve X and no further orders taken until the previous batch had been fulfilled: let's see how it goes and I hope that it works.

Do I like the name Twelve X? No I don't but I lack an alternative. Is it what I imagined the "20th anniversay watch" would be? No it isn't but at least it's not another BC with slightly different doal details!

Are we facing a future of "industrial" designs? @Amor Vincit Omnia and I seem to share childhood memories of growing up surrounded by heavy engineering, its sights, sounds and smells and we don't miss it. If GB Plc still had a manufacturing economy the noise, stink and grime of industry would be more widely known. Let's see the next C60 Mike...

Roll on October deliveries!