I don't get more that 20 hours of power reserve even after a week in the wrist.

I was wondering about everyone else's experience. Is this considered normal? Should I hand wind to get more if needed? I've read where this movement is not very robust in regards to hand winding but I would like a little more range in the tank than I'm getting.

My other brands tend to run as advertised if not longer than they should being worn the same way.

First - do you have steel or titanium model?

If steel, you should get about 38 hours (sw200)
If titanium you should be getting about 56 hours (sw300).

Definitely give it a good wind and see how you get on. If it runs after winding to the full reserve, try wearing it again with a few winds to start it out. If it dies before the day is out you may have something going on with the automatic winding works. Take a look through the caseback and move the watch around. Make sure the rotor spins 360 degrees. It won't spin freely. It will move in fits and starts this is normal.

Lastly, how active are you during the day? You need roughly 1300 full rotations of the rotor to get the watch fully wound.

Thanks for the reply. Stainless. And pretty active, most of my automatic watches go the advertised time off wrist.

Just curious if anyone is getting more or closer to what is expected.

The numbers I posted are published as 'typical' in the datasheet meaning you might get a little more or less. There are published minimums in the datasheet too. I think the SW300 is 50 hours minimum.

I just checked the SW200 datasheet and the typical is 41 minimum 38.

So you should see something in the ballpark. Not half. The trick, though is knowing that the reserve was at full power when taken off.

To test the PR. Wind it fully and monitor the rundown time until it stops.

To test the auto winding - again wind it to full PR. Wear it all day then take it off and again monitor until it stops. The auto winding system should keep the PR at full all day when wearing it (obviously with enough activity).

My understanding is that you should try to avoid fully hand winding an SW200 if at all possible so go steady. (A google search will confirm)

stefs wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 12:07 pm My understanding is that you should try to avoid fully hand winding an SW200 if at all possible so go steady. (A google search will confirm)

Those issues are long in the past. I regularly wind all of my Sellita with no issues at all. I'm not saying that issues will never happen as anything can happen.

This is one of the problems with the internet. It amplifies issues and they never go away even after being largely resolved.

Just wind them like you would any other watch. Smooth and purposeful.

rkovars wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 12:41 pm

stefs wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 12:07 pm My understanding is that you should try to avoid fully hand winding an SW200 if at all possible so go steady. (A google search will confirm)

Those issues are long in the past. I regularly wind all of my Sellita with no issues at all. I'm not saying that issues will never happen as anything can happen.

This is one of the problems with the internet. It amplifies issues and they never go away even after being largely resolved.

Just wind them like you would any other watch. Smooth and purposeful.

So largely gone away, other than…

Where the movement has been poorly lubricated, leading to sticking reverser wheels, on watches that are basically new…

I don’t have a single SW200 that winds as smoothly as the majority of watches I have with other movements. Only a couple have developed full on spinning rotor syndrome, due to sticking reverser wheels, but it is self evident on mine that they do not wind smoothly compared to other watches that I own.

Neil

nbg wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 12:54 pm

rkovars wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 12:41 pm

stefs wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 12:07 pm My understanding is that you should try to avoid fully hand winding an SW200 if at all possible so go steady. (A google search will confirm)

Those issues are long in the past. I regularly wind all of my Sellita with no issues at all. I'm not saying that issues will never happen as anything can happen.

This is one of the problems with the internet. It amplifies issues and they never go away even after being largely resolved.

Just wind them like you would any other watch. Smooth and purposeful.

So largely gone away, other than…

Where the movement has been poorly lubricated, leading to sticking reverser wheels, on watches that are basically new…

I don’t have a single SW200 that winds as smoothly as the majority of watches I have with other movements. Only a couple have developed full on spinning rotor syndrome, due to sticking reverser wheels, but it is self evident on mine that they do not wind smoothly compared to other watches that I own.

Neil

That is true but really isn't related to hand winding except that it really shows up when you do. You would also notice spinning rotor by having a low power reserve as the reversing wheels are not working efficiently. As an aside, the problem he is seeing with low PR could be the reversing wheel issue.

Spinning rotor isn't isolated to Sellita either. Even the Crown has the issue from time to time. Anything with a bi-directional winding system can have the same problem. I do wonder however if Rolex has a lower rate of this happening due to the coating of the reversing wheels. There is a reason that they are a deep red color and I don't think it is strictly looks

There are several manufacturers out there that do a full service on Sellita right out of the box before going into production watches. I think this is largely to get ahead of the spinning rotor. I don't think it is practical for someone shipping as many watches as CW to do this though.

I did a deep dive into this a year or so ago and spent an entire day researching the origin. I tracked it down to a post by a watchmaker that had pictures of a wheel with broken teeth in the train that is engaged when hand winding. ETA had similar reports at the same time.

It was never clear to me whether Sellita got some inferior metal (brass I think) to manufacture the wheel or if it was poor design. The fact that ETA had the same issues around the same time makes me think it was a supplier common to both companies.

I did find a service bulletin from Sellita to swap out the wheel in question when possible. Either during a standard service or when there were issues. The service bulletin never said the root cause.

From there it turns into automatic movements were never designed to be hand wound (not true) and you should never hand wind an automatic.

It takes on a life of its own.

You probably shouldn't hand wind an automatic everyday. There is a longer train of wheels happening to wind the barrel so more to go wrong. If the watch is already running when you pick it up just go and don't worry about it. Giving it a few winds from a dead stop to get it going will do no harm though. Testing the PR by giving it a full wind won't hurt it either.

Excellent post @rkovars . I, like you, are prone to taking a deep dive into the peculiarities of the heart of any watch, the movement. I have learned much of the same during a a recent visit to the Damasko website. They have been of a quest to improve on the failings of the the 2824 ETA movement, and have replaced the brass winding gears with more expensive hardened steel ones. They have also replaced the reverser gears with their own variation of the “pawl” winding system. Pawl winding is currently used by Seiko, with a different version developed and used by IWC. Top that off with lube free ceramic bearings on the rotor as used by Rolex, JLC and other higher end brands, and it puts Damasko in some serious company. Of course, this all come at a substancial cost increase, but I am currently seriously considering replacing my DA 36 ETA, with the exact same watch, only with their manufactory movement. This might seem silly to some, but for a tool guy, these improvements are hard to ignore.

It turns out that the Rolex reversing wheels in addition to being anodized are coated with Teflon (PTFE). This might account for a better failure rate when it comes to the spinning rotor syndrome. It makes me wonder what the longevity of that process is given the current environmental issues with PTFE production and use.

^^^^It would be interesting to see if the Seiko 'pawl' system is out of patent and that is why other people are now making versions of it. It also makes sense that a ceramic bearing on the rotor would be good. It would translate to more efficiency as there would be less friction at the bearing.

Thank you to all that have commented. It seems I have fallen for the internet paranoia about winding this variety of movement.

I have only wound it a few rotations before wearing. Prehaps if I wind completely to start I might get close to the 30 plus hours with regular wear.

Will report back.

watchaholic wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 4:24 pm Excellent post @rkovars . I, like you, are prone to taking a deep dive into the peculiarities of the heart of any watch, the movement. I have learned much of the same during a a recent visit to the Damasko website. They have been of a quest to improve on the failings of the the 2824 ETA movement, and have replaced the brass winding gears with more expensive hardened steel ones. They have also replaced the reverser gears with their own variation of the “pawl” winding system. Pawl winding is currently used by Seiko, with a different version developed and used by IWC. Top that off with lube free ceramic bearings on the rotor as used by Rolex, JLC and other higher end brands, and it puts Damasko in some serious company. Of course, this all come at a substancial cost increase, but I am currently seriously considering replacing my DA 36 ETA, with the exact same watch, only with their manufactory movement. This might seem silly to some, but for a tool guy, these improvements are hard to ignore.

Great post. I too love the tech side of things, though time doesn't allow me to deep dive as much. Your explanation of the Damasko enhancements are appealing and I don't mind paying extra coin for this. However, I can only manage the look of their chronographs which I'm not interested in. Interestingly, this is despite the Sinn 856 being a favourite of mine.

maclink wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 6:13 pm

watchaholic wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 4:24 pm Excellent post @rkovars . I, like you, are prone to taking a deep dive into the peculiarities of the heart of any watch, the movement. I have learned much of the same during a a recent visit to the Damasko website. They have been of a quest to improve on the failings of the the 2824 ETA movement, and have replaced the brass winding gears with more expensive hardened steel ones. They have also replaced the reverser gears with their own variation of the “pawl” winding system. Pawl winding is currently used by Seiko, with a different version developed and used by IWC. Top that off with lube free ceramic bearings on the rotor as used by Rolex, JLC and other higher end brands, and it puts Damasko in some serious company. Of course, this all come at a substancial cost increase, but I am currently seriously considering replacing my DA 36 ETA, with the exact same watch, only with their manufactory movement. This might seem silly to some, but for a tool guy, these improvements are hard to ignore.

Great post. I too love the tech side of things, though time doesn't allow me to deep dive as much. Your explanation of the Damasko enhancements are appealing and I don't mind paying extra coin for this. However, I can only manage the look of their chronographs which I'm not interested in. Interestingly, this is despite the Sinn 856 being a favourite of mine.

Not to appear as a fan boy of the brand, but they also make some wonderful 3 handers for signifintly less $$.

Every time I see this topic, I click on it hoping for a new Twelve release with a PR complication