I had actually been thinking about this for a couple of weeks, and then yesterday evening (UK time) @Kip presented the "Do Your Research" feedback project.

I saw a CW advert on TV a couple of weeks ago that ended with the thought "Do Your Research ". I didn't like that phrase in the TV advert.

I posted and then immediately deleted a topic on the subject at that time, as I decided I didn't want to come across as unduly negative. However, I didn't like it in the advert, and i don't like it on the website. I would like to see a much more positive message.

Sorry.

I will respectfully disagree. The world is losing research skills at a rate of knots. I grew up learning how to navigate dictionaries, encyclopedias and libraries; a lot of kids today don’t even understand alphabetical ordering. They type some approximation of a word and up comes a plethora of conflicting information.

I’m happy for people to be challenged to discover things for themselves and draw conclusions, as opposed to being spoon-fed garbage.

I think it’s a good tagline – don’t take anything for granted, look at what’s available and make up your own mind. Participate actively in your own decision-making and don’t be lazy.

Is this excluding a date complication?

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: ↑Sat Sep 16, 2023 8:25 pm The world is losing research skills at a rate of knots. I grew up learning how to navigate dictionaries, encyclopedias and libraries; a lot of kids today don’t even understand alphabetical ordering. They type some approximation of a word and up comes a plethora of conflicting information.

Doesn't that simply mean that there are new and potentially better ways of researching nowadays? There's minimal reason to navigate an encyclopedia when far more information on almost every topic is available online. Clearly people still need to be sensible when looking online, but it's an incredible research tool when used properly.

My experience is the people that grew up using physical dictionaries and encyclopedias are the ones believing everything they read on Facebook

Back on topic... I don't particularly like it either, seems overly self-congratulatory and patronising.

sproughton wrote: ↑Sat Sep 16, 2023 8:41 pm
My experience is the people that grew up using physical dictionaries and encyclopedias are the ones believing everything they read on Facebook

You need to broaden your experience, then. One could justifiably say the same (or perhaps the opposite) of Wikipedia or Google Translate. Information per se is of limited use unless people develop the understanding necessary to discriminate and process.

JAFO wrote: ↑Sat Sep 16, 2023 8:03 pm I would like to see a much more positive message.

I fail to see how the tagline is a negative message?

sproughton wrote: ↑Sat Sep 16, 2023 8:41 pm Doesn't that simply mean that there are new and potentially better ways of researching nowadays?

While the tools are different, the skills are basically the same. I wholeheartedly agree with Steve, @Amor Vincit Omnia, that fundamental research skills have slowly been eroding. I battle against this loss every single day in the classroom and feel like I’m losing.


My question with the new tagline is exactly what’s the message they’re trying to convey with it, beyond simply a new addition to the website?

^^^ @jkbarnes It’s hardly a new tagline, Drew. They have been using it for several years. We were talking about it back in 2018.

https://www.christopherwardforum.com/n ... 50843.html

I associate it with the anti-science movement in the US. I am not trying to start a political debate on the forum, just saying that “do your own research” is parroted by people here who have an agenda that I find harmful. I know CW isn’t taking a position on that with this tag but it’s the first thing I think of when I hear it.

NationOfLaws wrote: ↑Sat Sep 16, 2023 9:43 pm I associate it with the anti-science movement in the US. I am not trying to start a political debate on the forum, just saying that “do your own research” is parroted by people here who have an agenda that I find harmful. I know CW isn’t taking a position on that with this tag but it’s the first thing I think of when I hear it.

That’s a take I hadn’t thought about. That might actually be worth sharing with CW on the feedback form.

It sounds a bit pretentious, and I always figured it could backfire if people found out about various problems like CW customer service issues due to understaffing, or how previous watches (current remains to be seen) could be a gamble to get spare parts for because Mike France admitted they didn't have a proper system in place.

It's a lofty statement that requires proper backing.

I definitely don't like CW's eagerness of constantly exclaiming, "look how much everyone else in charging!!!!?". Sure, no doubt prices asked across this hobby can seem silly, but those other companies are also more established-- and that comes with providing more thorough and comprehensive services. CW doesn't have a problem clearly borrowing designs from other companies, all while taking unnecessary shots at them. I would rather have the brand stand completely on their own merits when it comes to marketing material and statements.

Emphasis wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2023 1:27 am It sounds a bit pretentious, and I always figured it could backfire if people found out about various problems like CW customer service issues due to understaffing, or how previous watches (current remains to be seen) could be a gamble to get spare parts for because Mike France admitted they didn't have a proper system in place.

It's a lofty statement that requires proper backing.

I definitely don't like CW's eagerness of constantly exclaiming, "look how much everyone else in charging!!!!?". Sure, no doubt prices asked across this hobby can seem silly, but those other companies are also more established-- and that comes with providing more thorough and comprehensive services. CW doesn't have a problem clearly borrowing designs from other companies, all while taking unnecessary shots at them. I would rather have the brand stand completely on their own merits when it comes to marketing material and statements.

My feeling was that there's little to support enthusiasm for legacy models (JJ calibre models apart) which could well be the first point of entry into the brand for many. (I'd venture that for the greater majority of forum members that would certainly have been the case. There's an irony that this might quietly reflect where we seem to be with customer service and servicing. Anyone doing their own research viewing the brand Timeline would think them a brand of very few models indeed.
One could be lead to thinking that the embedded video comment about "guaranteeing these watches for five years" indicates a five year life cycle for a watch?
Is this a tool to cover the brand history and all or is this a tool to spring the brand onwards and upwards with only a cursory glance back at the past? It certainly doesn't feel like the latter.
I shall revisit and go through DYR again for a second read. I'm here to stay for the long run so maybe I'm not the target audience?

Personally I think it's quite a good tagline. We are living in a research age, largely because of the incredible resource the internet is. We all research daily, often for hours on end. Cheap utility providers, restaurant reviews, cheap hotels, great car deals, the best mobile tariffs etc, etc. I see that tagline saying, "you may not of heard of us, but we're doing good things. Don't just rush out to buy from the established brands; your diligence might be rewarded." I like how transparent CW are being. They're just setting out their stall; it's up to you if you want to sample their offerings.

It's incredible how vastly different people can interpret three simple words.

Des

^^^ My thinking as well.

CW is suggesting that their target audience might want to check them out before rushing into a typical name brand purchase. "Do your Research" and then decide. They are also providing a place to do so.

NationOfLaws wrote: ↑Sat Sep 16, 2023 9:43 pm I associate it with the anti-science movement in the US. I am not trying to start a political debate on the forum, just saying that “do your own research” is parroted by people here who have an agenda that I find harmful. I know CW isn’t taking a position on that with this tag but it’s the first thing I think of when I hear it.

This is 100% why i really dislike the phrase! To AVO's point, Steve likes it because it's meant to encourage potential customers to dig in and do some study, with CW clearly confident that they'll come out on top (and hell, that's how I found my way here in the first place!) and if this was 4 years ago, I expect I'd be quite happy with the tagline.

The problem is, that we now live in a world overflowing with information and genuine research skills are thin on the ground - the phrase, especially over recent years, has become a byline for "watch some YouTube videos that agree with my point of view". I suspect very few people on the street nowadays could tell me what good research skills are, how they'd analyse sources for potential bias, how they'd avoid falling down into an echo chamber driving them to follow the loudest voice...

...and due to this connotation, much like @JAFO and @NationOfLaws I am instantly turned off by the phrase, and know that we're not alone in this.

The thing is, I'm certain they could come up with a snappy phrase, that means the exact same thing but doesn't have this same negative association in many peoples minds - the sentiment behind the idea is bang on! But the execution is poor in my opinion

@Stif, as I commented earlier, this perspective really ought to be shared with CW. And @JAFO, I see your your point now about how it’s not necessarily a positive message!