The Alliance of British Watch & Clock Makers

Discuss Christopher Ward watches
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Re: The Alliance of British Watch & Clock Makers

Post by Squalus »

exHowfener wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:39 pm 1) How having your stuff made in China/Switzerland or anywhere outside the UK leads to setting up as a "British Watch & Clock Maker".
2) Why, as an "Alliance of British Watch & Clock Makers" you would choose to decorate the home page of your website with a "Swiss Made" watch.
During the last GTG, Mike France mentioned the discussion phase of a collaboration for fabricating components, that are common to the UK companies, domestically. Rather than the individual companies placing small orders each, their requirements could be consolidated into one large order. The unit cost of these components would then drop significantly. This practice is referred to as 'Economies of Scale'. Basically, the more components you produce, the lower their individual cost becomes.
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Re: The Alliance of British Watch & Clock Makers

Post by Commisar »

Squalus wrote:
exHowfener wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:39 pm 1) How having your stuff made in China/Switzerland or anywhere outside the UK leads to setting up as a "British Watch & Clock Maker".
2) Why, as an "Alliance of British Watch & Clock Makers" you would choose to decorate the home page of your website with a "Swiss Made" watch.
During the last GTG, Mike France mentioned the discussion phase of a collaboration for fabricating components, that are common to the UK companies, domestically. Rather than the individual companies placing small orders each, their requirements could be consolidated into one large order. The unit cost of these components would then drop significantly. This practice is referred to as 'Economies of Scale'. Basically, the more components you produce, the lower their individual cost becomes.
Correct, he said he same on a Worn and Wound interview a few weeks ago.

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Re: The Alliance of British Watch & Clock Makers

Post by kiter65 »

That would be a good tag line.....CW watch cases manufactured in the UK by Bremont :escape:
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Re: The Alliance of British Watch & Clock Makers

Post by albionphoto »

Squalus wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:49 pm Commisar, I read that Bremont had bought CNC machines; I don't know how many. Have they stated if their machines will be used only to fabricate their own cases or will they be used also for others wanting some machining services (not just watch cases)?

I don't know what is Bremont's annual shipments but I imagine they wouldn't want their machines to sit idle for an an extended amount of time. That's why I wondered if they were going to offer their machining services to others.
For 2019 one of the English Brothers claimed they made 8,000 watches a year. I think it was in the Scottish Watches podcast but the number has been thrown around in various places.
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Re: The Alliance of British Watch & Clock Makers

Post by exHowfener »

This practice is referred to as 'Economies of Scale'.
Yes, it is, Economies of scale would only apply though if everyone involved in the order was using the same component. Say with a watch movement being used by multiple manufacturers. Otherwise it's just a discount for a large order.
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Re: The Alliance of British Watch & Clock Makers

Post by ajax87 »

Bahnstormer_vRS wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:10 pm
Dickchins wrote:Just got that email also.
£100 voucher plus membership (worth £55) with a purchase before xmas eve. Not a bad deal I suppose..?!!!
As I read it; you buy a watch for over £500, use the 100LOUPE19 voucher to get £100 off then, and only then, you get your free membership of the Alliance of British Watchmakers worth £55.
For American customers buying in USD, that code doesn’t work. Looks like 125LOUPE19 is the code that works for me, and I’m assuming it works the same with the membership? Odd because I received this email today with the incorrect code and reference to £ rather than $, whereas CW in the past has emailed me the US code in dollars. :-k
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Re: The Alliance of British Watch & Clock Makers

Post by Thegreyman »

exHowfener wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:38 pm
This practice is referred to as 'Economies of Scale'.
Yes, it is, Economies of scale would only apply though if everyone involved in the order was using the same component. Say with a watch movement being used by multiple manufacturers. Otherwise it's just a discount for a large order.
Exactly, unless Bremont and CW start using the same or identical components of the case, then I fail to see how an economy of scale could be achieved.
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Re: The Alliance of British Watch & Clock Makers

Post by Squalus »

albionphoto wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:56 pm
Squalus wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 4:49 pm Commisar, I read that Bremont had bought CNC machines; I don't know how many. Have they stated if their machines will be used only to fabricate their own cases or will they be used also for others wanting some machining services (not just watch cases)?

I don't know what is Bremont's annual shipments but I imagine they wouldn't want their machines to sit idle for an an extended amount of time. That's why I wondered if they were going to offer their machining services to others.
For 2019 one of the English Brothers claimed they made 8,000 watches a year. I think it was in the Scottish Watches podcast but the number has been thrown around in various places.
Thanks Mark, I can't see 8000 watches per year justify buying a single six-axis CNC machine (again, I don't know how many they have bought). I suspect they would be providing machining services to outside customers. A previous company I worked for has in-house CNC machines for our own products but they also were used to make products for other customers.
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Re: The Alliance of British Watch & Clock Makers

Post by Caller »

Squalus wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:49 pm
Thanks Mark, I can't see 8000 watches per year justify buying a single six-axis CNC machine (again, I don't know how many they have bought). I suspect they would be providing machining services to outside customers. A previous company I worked for has in-house CNC machines for our own products but they also were used to make products for other customers.
Bremont have been producing their own cases for a few years now and increasingly other watch parts, so much so, that they can no longer use COSC for their chronometers, as all their watches are.

The number of watches sold has significantly increased since that figure mentioned by Giles English in an interview. He went on to say, that as they continue their expansion, as they have done, with their new facilities at Henley and the eventual
intro of their own movement (initialy for LE's, I believe), they needed to get that figure up to around 18,000. Shortly after, they srated producing watches in smaller sizes and produced a range of watches with lower prices.
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Re: The Alliance of British Watch & Clock Makers

Post by Commisar »

Caller wrote:
Squalus wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:49 pm
Thanks Mark, I can't see 8000 watches per year justify buying a single six-axis CNC machine (again, I don't know how many they have bought). I suspect they would be providing machining services to outside customers. A previous company I worked for has in-house CNC machines for our own products but they also were used to make products for other customers.
Bremont have been producing their own cases for a few years now and increasingly other watch parts, so much so, that they can no longer use COSC for their chronometers, as all their watches are.

The number of watches sold has significantly increased since that figure mentioned by Giles English in an interview. He went on to say, that as they continue their expansion, as they have done, with their new facilities at Henley and the eventual
intro of their own movement (initialy for LE's, I believe), they needed to get that figure up to around 18,000. Shortly after, they srated producing watches in smaller sizes and produced a range of watches with lower prices.
Ohh very interesting. Do they use another organization for timekeeping testing?

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Re: The Alliance of British Watch & Clock Makers

Post by Lavaine »

kiter65 wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:22 pm That would be a good tag line.....CW watch cases manufactured in the UK by Bremont :escape:
Is it any different than (insert watch company name) movements made by Swatch?
There is historical precedent for this after all. Pocket watches frequently were cased by case makers whose name wasn't on the dial. Luxury cars used to be bodied by coach makers whose name weren't on the nameplate, and many small production cars have engines from larger companies under the hood. Bremont making cases for other companies would be very reasonable, wouldn't reduce the value of CW watches in any way, would benefit the bottom line for Bremont, and would increase the 'Britishness' of CW.
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Re: The Alliance of British Watch & Clock Makers

Post by kiter65 »

^^^^I totally agree :thumbup:
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Re: The Alliance of British Watch & Clock Makers

Post by Caller »

Commisar wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:38 pmOhh very interesting. Do they use another organization for timekeeping testing
Presumably ISO
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Re: The Alliance of British Watch & Clock Makers

Post by StrapMeister »

I have to confess that, having read through the posts on the OP subject, I'm of the same opinion as exHowfener.
Caller wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:31 pm
Commisar wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:38 pmOhh very interesting. Do they use another organization for timekeeping testing
Presumably ISO
To my knowledge BREMONT don't use another organization for timekeeping testing.
Currently, iirc, they buy in Swiss COSC ETA movements which they then modify in-house subsequently calling it a caliber xyz automatic.
They then test/regulate (again in-house) to +/- 3 secs a day.
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Re: The Alliance of British Watch & Clock Makers

Post by A1soknownas »

If someone is making either the movement (including significant modification) or case in Britain fair enough, I can understand how they can be deemed British.

However if both the case and movement are made in Switzerland or China, what part of the watchmaker alliance can claim to be British? The Marketing department?

Or is it simply a formation to influence these component factors? I get that as a company, but I'm not sure of the real worth of individual membership.
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