I think a cosc option would be tricky. If they decide to make a batch of 100 watches for stock, they are going to need a fancy ordering system to identify pre ordered cosc spec watches within that batch, as well as the movements to hand, possibly decorated for a particular watch.. I think it sort of has to be one or the other really, within the pricing parameters CW try to maintain.

This thing about accuracy. One of my favourite watches is a Davidoff diver. It's one of my least accurate though losing about 15spd. You get used to better accuracy, and it's definitely galling to then get a relatively poorly performing watch notwithstanding that's still in spec. . I might take the back off one day ..

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 10:31 am

Internaut wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 10:01 am I’d have been happy to pay for a COSC option (as long as it’s not bronze). All you’re doing is, effectively, paying someone to do a thing that the guarantee won’t allow you to sort out for yourself (init)? One of the drawbacks of the direct to consumer model.

^^^ Not really. You're paying for a higher spec movement designed and tested to run on tighter tolerances. The +/-20 s/d tolerance is not per se a FAULT in the SW200-1 movement, it's the way it is made. There is nothing WRONG with a movement that is performing within its manufacturer's specifications, therefore nothing to "sort out". (Init?)

In general, that which runs excessively slow, or excessively fast, at either edge of the tolerances, can be improved upon by a trained craftsman with a very particular set of skills. So to say, for example, that a new watch that ends up running consistently at either edge must stay that way is, quite frankly, a nonsense. If a thing can be sorted then it would be wrong to say there is nothing to sort. To do or not is a different argument and for me the answer would, usually, be not.

Edit: It would have been better to say disappointingly rather than excessively since that which lies within tolerances cannot be excessive.

Mikkei4 wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 11:35 am

Internaut wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 10:01 am I’d have been happy to pay for a COSC option (as long as it’s not bronze). All you’re doing is, effectively, paying someone to do a thing that the guarantee won’t allow you to sort out for yourself (init)? One of the drawbacks of the direct to consumer model.

Not sure how you put this difference in spec or performance down as a "drawback of the direct to consumer model" ?

Just because other watches are sold through ADs that doesn't make the performance of a particular movement spec any better so why is the CW situation of direct to consumer a drawback?

I was about to give chapter and verse withe respect to AD vs D2C but I’m inclined to stand corrected here. I suppose my thinking here is that problems (perceived or real) are easier dealt with when you can just walk into a shop.

Internaut wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 4:19 pm

Mikkei4 wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 11:35 am

Internaut wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 10:01 am I’d have been happy to pay for a COSC option (as long as it’s not bronze). All you’re doing is, effectively, paying someone to do a thing that the guarantee won’t allow you to sort out for yourself (init)? One of the drawbacks of the direct to consumer model.

Not sure how you put this difference in spec or performance down as a "drawback of the direct to consumer model" ?

Just because other watches are sold through ADs that doesn't make the performance of a particular movement spec any better so why is the CW situation of direct to consumer a drawback?

I was about to give chapter and verse withe respect to AD vs D2C but I’m inclined to stand corrected here. I suppose my thinking here is that problems (perceived or real) are easier dealt with when you can just walk into a shop.

What do you think the response from the AD would be if somebody took a watch back and said they were disappointed with it's timekeeping even though it was performing within the tolerances stated by the manufacturers of that watch ?

Black. All the way.

Mikkei4 wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 4:26 pm

Internaut wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 4:19 pm

Mikkei4 wrote: ↑Thu May 26, 2022 11:35 am

Not sure how you put this difference in spec or performance down as a "drawback of the direct to consumer model" ?

Just because other watches are sold through ADs that doesn't make the performance of a particular movement spec any better so why is the CW situation of direct to consumer a drawback?

I was about to give chapter and verse withe respect to AD vs D2C but I’m inclined to stand corrected here. I suppose my thinking here is that problems (perceived or real) are easier dealt with when you can just walk into a shop.

What do you think the response from the AD would be if somebody took a watch back and said they were disappointed with it's timekeeping even though it was performing within the tolerances stated by the manufacturers of that watch ?

One imagines that depends on the dealer. However, there is nothing wrong with getting a watch serviced while still under guarantee (and CW do offer this). That is less of a faff when when you can just walk into a shop.

Internaut wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 4:03 pm In general, that which runs excessively slow, or excessively fast, at either edge of the tolerances, can be improved upon by a trained craftsman with a very particular set of skills. So to say, for example, that a new watch that ends up running consistently at either edge must stay that way is, quite frankly, a nonsense. If a thing can be sorted then it would be wrong to say there is nothing to sort. To do or not is a different argument and for me the answer would, usually, be not.

Edit: It would have been better to say disappointingly rather than excessively since that which lies within tolerances cannot be excessive.

Well, firstly don’t mind me, I do tend to talk a lot of nonsense. Secondly, whilst it is undoubtedly true that these movements can be fine tuned to tighter tolerances, the time and skills involved come at a price. Hence my original question: were they to offer either a COSC option or COSC movements throughout, would people be prepared to pay the premium?

In buying a watch with a given movement, it seems that one is implicitly accepting the tolerances that are stated quite clearly by the manufacturer (assuming one has read the information) and rather hoping that one’s individual watch will be on the better side of average ¿no?

Internaut wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 4:39 pm

Mikkei4 wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 4:26 pm

Internaut wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 4:19 pm

I was about to give chapter and verse withe respect to AD vs D2C but I’m inclined to stand corrected here. I suppose my thinking here is that problems (perceived or real) are easier dealt with when you can just walk into a shop.

What do you think the response from the AD would be if somebody took a watch back and said they were disappointed with it's timekeeping even though it was performing within the tolerances stated by the manufacturers of that watch ?

One imagines that depends on the dealer. However, there is nothing wrong with getting a watch serviced while still under guarantee (and CW do offer this). That is less of a faff when when you can just walk into a shop.

Sure you could walk into the AD and ask them to service the watch and you would have to pay to get the watch serviced. I presume the AD would send it off to the manufacturer for the service which is basically all that you would do sending a watch back to CW?
I'm trying to understand how this fits in with the previous posting stating "All you’re doing is, effectively, paying someone to do a thing that the guarantee won’t allow you to sort out for yourself (init)? One of the drawbacks of the direct to consumer model."

out in the woods

Asking question in this thread as other thread about Sealander has “likeylikey” in title and that is one of my most hated words

I’m really coming around to the Sealander GMT but cannot decide on colour.

Blue or Green are favourites, (although that White is amazing) because I’ve had issues on legibility on White dials with white hands.

So, my question:- Is the white legibility better than on the C60s for instance?

I’m hesitant because photos always show good legibility even on the white C60s, but for me in actuality, it doesn’t show up well.

I’ve even returned a Black/White C60 purely down to this factor.

I hope I’ve explained my predicament, and thanks in anticipation for any guidance.

TheBeatles wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 12:30 pm I’m hesitant because photos always show good legibility even on the white C60s, but for me in actuality, it doesn’t show up well.

Always a good question, Brian, and I rather suspect I’m with you here. The fundamental thing for me is that my ageing eyes can actually tell the time, and therefore I have grown to appreciate some contrast between hands and dial. My dark dial watches all tend to have white lumed hands; the lume or lack of it doesn’t actually bother me most of the time. My light dial watches have dark hands.

White on white: I accept that the edging on the hands will add a degree of legibility, and I understand that for some people lume is all important. However, the plain truth is that I find the look rather insipid in daylight or indoor lighting, which is when I tend to look most at my watch.

Black on black is a different matter altogether. I tried on abyss watches at the last GTG I went to and struggled to see the time. A victory for cool over commonsense, I suspect.

Regarding the Sealander GMT, I have only seen or tried the black one and to me it’s utterly brilliant – my most legible watch. I can’t comment on the white, though photos I’ve seen certainly make it look more legible than some. The blue looks nice but I would have preferred more of a royal blue. The green would be out for me because I don’t like green dials and I certainly don’t like ombré dials.

Thanks Steve, your comments make a great deal of sense and are much appreciated.

Just taken another look at the Black, I really like the way the orange highlights pop. Especially if you view it with the Blue and Green versions side by side.

I’m not easily swayed, but you’ve given me food for thought.

Thanks again

TheBeatles wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:19 pm Just taken another look at the Black, I really like the way the orange highlights pop.

They certainly do, even the little tiny rectangles at the end of the indices.




And if you like lume, this is gorgeous. Long lasting too.

TheBeatles wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:19 pm
Just taken another look at the Black, I really like the way the orange highlights pop. Especially if you view it with the Blue and Green versions side by side.

I previously posted my comparison of the black and white Sealanders.

With regards clarity of the white; my first CW was a C60 white GMT and it was returned within a week because it was illegible in most outdoor lighting conditions. The white Sealander is, at least for me, an improvement with its slightly darker gunmetal finished hands.

This is a photo just taken outdoors in just about the most difficult of lighting conditions:



It’s still not perfect, but for me I’m satisfied with the legibility.