sealander black or white

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ajax87
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Re: sealander black or white

Post by ajax87 »

^^^ What he said. Running fast could mean it was magnetized in transit. Also important to keep in mind that it is within acceptable range for the movement which is rated for -20 to +20 spd.
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Re: sealander black or white

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ajax87 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:30 pm ^^^ What he said. Running fast could mean it was magnetized in transit. Also important to keep in mind that it is within acceptable range for the movement which is rated for -20 to +20 spd.
ive done a couple of tests with on magnetizer app and on a compass and i dont think t is although my Hamilton interstellar has gotten magnetized i think
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sealander black or white

Post by SpAwN_BG »

jayrob1984 wrote:hi guys i got my watch . i really like it but im a little disappointed with the accuracy . its with in the tolerance at +13s but was hoping for better .
DSC_0332.JPG
DSC_0339.JPG
Undortunately this was my expierence with my green automatic out of the box as well: +13s a day…wasn‘t impressed by the SW200-1 movement.
Returned it for black GMT and SW330-2 makes wonders: -0,1s a day! Couldn‘t be happier!
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Re: sealander black or white

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

SpAwN_BG wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 2:09 am
jayrob1984 wrote:hi guys i got my watch . i really like it but im a little disappointed with the accuracy . its with in the tolerance at +13s but was hoping for better .

DSC_0332.JPG

DSC_0339.JPG
Undortunately this was my expierence with my green automatic out of the box too: +13s a day…wasn‘t impressed by the SW200-1 movement.
Returned it for black GMT and SW330-2 makes wonders: -0,1s a day! Couldn‘t be happier!
At the risk of sounding slightly harsh, the image below shows some of the specifications for the Sealander Auto, taken from the CW website this morning. Were you not aware of the tolerances when you ordered the watch?

922770AA-0327-4C41-BF86-A3CAB421E1D0.jpeg

Secondly, and slightly playing Devil’s Advocate here: given that you are unhappy with the tolerances stated for the movement, do you think that CW should make all the watches using COSC rated movements? Or, as an alternative, should there perhaps be a COSC option for every variant of every watch, as opposed to the current usage of COSC movements, which is mainly in limited editions?

It’s food for thought certainly, though there would of course be a price implication.
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Re: sealander black or white

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

^^^^ . . .of course a watch equipped with a COSC spec movement comes at a price. Usually around an additional £75 - £100.

Food for thought.

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Re: sealander black or white

Post by Internaut »

I’d have been happy to pay for a COSC option (as long as it’s not bronze). All you’re doing is, effectively, paying someone to do a thing that the guarantee won’t allow you to sort out for yourself (init)? One of the drawbacks of the direct to consumer model.
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Re: sealander black or white

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Internaut wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 10:01 am I’d have been happy to pay for a COSC option (as long as it’s not bronze). All you’re doing is, effectively, paying someone to do a thing that the guarantee won’t allow you to sort out for yourself (init)? One of the drawbacks of the direct to consumer model.
^^^ Not really. You're paying for a higher spec movement designed and tested to run on tighter tolerances. The +/-20 s/d tolerance is not per se a FAULT in the SW200-1 movement, it's the way it is made. There is nothing WRONG with a movement that is performing within its manufacturer's specifications, therefore nothing to "sort out". (Init?)
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Re: sealander black or white

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Internaut wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 10:01 am I’d have been happy to pay for a COSC option (as long as it’s not bronze). All you’re doing is, effectively, paying someone to do a thing that the guarantee won’t allow you to sort out for yourself (init)? One of the drawbacks of the direct to consumer model.
Not sure how you put this difference in spec or performance down as a "drawback of the direct to consumer model" ?

Just because other watches are sold through ADs that doesn't make the performance of a particular movement spec any better so why is the CW situation of direct to consumer a drawback?
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Re: sealander black or white

Post by jkbarnes »

I don’t understand people being unhappy with a movement performing within its stated specifications. If one wants a watch with tighter performance, one should buy a watch with tighter specifications.
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Re: sealander black or white

Post by JAFO »

Not quite to do with the Sealander, just musings in general.
I imagine movement manufacturers ship movements made to a specific set of tolerances.

Watch makers probably just drop a standard movement into a watch, just make sure that it functions correctly, hacks, etc and don't check the accuracy at all. If a customer has a watch out of spec, it's a warranty claim, and they fix it.

I imagine that's also how Invicta make and sell you an automatic watch for £100 include taxes and shipping.

There's 86400 seconds in a day. 20 secs per day is a very accurate result. That's less than 1 in 4000.
If you are lucky, the standard movement shows a much better result than 20spd. I wonder how many dead pixels you would get on a TV before you noticed it. It's not a spec of zero dead pixels - that's the thing.

If you want a guaranteed two seconds or so a day, you can pay 5 to 10 times as much for careful regulation. Instead you can buy a COSC watch, for a somewhat modest amount more. However, If COSC charge £100 for certification, CW might likely want 3 times that on the ticket price. Other watch makers want much more than 3 times as much on their costs, which is why they have MSRP's of 2 or 3 times those of CW.

Take the Aquitaine. On leather, you can get a basic Aquitaine for £905, or a GMT for £1130, so £225 extra for the GMT.
You can also get a bronze COSC for £1105, so £200 extra for the COSC. CW add about £100 for a bracelet over a strap. We all know watch brands who want at least 5 times that amount for much the same bracelet or strap.

I presume there isn't too much difference in actual costs for CW. Maybe bronze is slightly dearer than steel., but I doubt there is much in it.
So on that basis a GMT complication costs about the same as a COSC badge,

I am sure CW are also trying to manage their selling prices carefully. Compared with the high street, they are still much less expensive for the Swiss Made designation. It depends whether CW's real competition is non-Swiss made micro brands, or Swiss made High Street brands. It's probably both, in truth, and it's a complicated balancing exercise.
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Re: sealander black or white

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Mike France said in an interview somewhere that COSC is $50 per movement (could be pounds I don't remember) so the total to the customer would be $150 using CWs formula.

It is likely that the SW330 does cost more overall but equally likely they might be buying fewer of them too which would also raise the price per movement for CW. Cousins has the SW330-2 for £400 ea. There would be bulk pricing available to OEMs from Sellita.

When you look at the Sellita spec sheets there are 4 grades of movement available all with different timing tolerances. My guess is that they all come off of the same line and Sellita sorts them on performance and prices accordingly. They do the same thing with semiconductors.

Here is an excerpt from the SW200 data sheet. The 4 grades of movement are standard, elabore, premium and COSC. You can see that a standard movement is +- 20 sec with an average of +-12 sec. This means that most will fall in here but some will be outside this number. It is also important to note that the MAX deviation is 30 sec per day. Meaning that any one position will not vary more than 30 sec. It is also important to note that Sellita may restrict the sale of 'special' grades - says this in the data sheet. So an OEM might not be able to get the premium option for example or there may be VERY high MOQs. Cousins has almost a 2x markup from standard to elabore. It can only go up from there.
Screenshot 2022-05-26 102259.jpg

I think what often happens is that people are getting used to the smaller brands doing in-house regulation before shipping the watches. That isn't always possible as you grow in scale without there being a cost impact. There is a pervasive line of thinking out there that if company X can do it then why can't everyone do it. Well, it is because company X made 200 not 20,000 (not saying CW is anywhere near the second number). Most companies that do this advertise it up front as a marketing point and rightly so. But to hold everyone to the same standard especially when it is not stated or advertised that the practice happens is a little misguided.

Should CW be regulating every watch that comes through? Maybe. It is definitely a point for discussion. However, the change would not be $0 to the customer. That is for certain.
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Re: sealander black or white

Post by NationOfLaws »

I can't get too wrapped around the axle on pretty minor timing differences on a mechanical watch. If I wanted perfection I'd buy a quartz movement (and save some money)
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Re: sealander black or white

Post by iain »

I get where the OP is coming from when he says he’s a little disappointed.

I’ve have quite a few CW watches and they are all usually within +\-10 spd. If I bought one now and it was +\-20 spd then I’d be disappointed. I wouldn’t be complaining as it is in spec, but having got used to, and read about others having a more accurate watch then I can see why there would be an element of disappointment.

Nothing wrong with that it’s human nature. Try telling a group of kids they’ll get between 5-10 sweets each. Then giving one kid 5 and the rest all get 10 each. The one who got 5 would be disappointed and I don’t see anything wrong with the OP showing this.
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Re: sealander black or white

Post by jkbarnes »

iain wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 5:28 pm I get where the OP is coming from when he says he’s a little disappointed.

I’ve have quite a few CW watches and they are all usually within +\-10 spd. If I bought one now and it was +\-20 spd then I’d be disappointed. I wouldn’t be complaining as it is in spec, but having got used to, and read about others having a more accurate watch then I can see why there would be an element of disappointment.

Nothing wrong with that it’s human nature. Try telling a group of kids they’ll get between 5-10 sweets each. Then giving one kid 5 and the rest all get 10 each. The one who got 5 would be disappointed and I don’t see anything wrong with the OP showing this.
Good point. Thanks for pointing this out.
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Re: sealander black or white

Post by jayrob1984 »

i think the option of a cosc version of every watch is a brilliant idea but if its affordable in the range of cosc certified not 3 times what it cost to get is certified. mike France said its approx. £50 in a interview