Same old, Same old from CW?

Discuss Christopher Ward watches
Geefiasco
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by Geefiasco »

Lavaine wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:47 pm
Geefiasco wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:11 pm I agree to an extent. I wanted a nice dress watch for my collection but there are none to be found sub £1K that are nice a simple designs.
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That’s beautiful. I will have a look into this, many thanks 👍
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by Lavaine »

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:01 am Interesting article on the BBC website today about the downturn in sales of formal clothing at M&S.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58374306

Obviously there will always be occasions to dress up. However, it is clear that the world is gradually deformalising, a process hastened by the pandemic.
I think that this 'deformalising' brings with it the idea that most men don't want a delicate dress watch that they might wear a few times a year to weddings, funerals and fancy dinners. I think that the "dressy casual" watch, as I like to think of them, are really the new dress watch. Models like the Datejust, Santos, Aquaterra and literally hundreds of Seikos. Dressy enough to look fine with a suit, but sturdy enough for daily wear.

I have 2 formal dress watches. One is a vintage watch that my wife bought me. It truly fits in the "funerals, weddings and fancy dinner" category. It gets worn a handful of times per year. The other is a modern JS 101 that, while a dress watch, looks good with a casual outfit, especially when worn on a brown ostrich strap. It often gets worn out for casual dinners, shows etc.

If I didn't have either of these dress watches, I honestly wouldn't feel like there was a hole in my collection. For most of us, a dress watch is at the periphery of our collection, not a necessary part of the core collection. Couple that with the changing idea of what constitutes a dress watch, and you have a real challenge selling 'traditional' dress pieces. I really like the Santos, but have always struggled to figure out where it fits in a collection. I think the Santos and Reverso both suffer from an identity crisis. They are ostensibly casual sports watches (the Santos was originally a pilots watch), and undoubtedly look good in jeans, but I think if you showed a picture of either to a non-wis, most would identify them as dress watches.

Is there room for CW to bring back a dress watch? I don't know. They are certainly more niche than anything else in the current lineup. Is there room for a 'dressy casual' watch? I'd say yes. In fact, I think the black 3 hand Sealander is almost there, and a black or silver Sealander 36mm 3 hander no-date could probably pass muster as a modern 'dress' watch.'
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by Lavaine »

Geefiasco wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:56 pm
Lavaine wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:47 pm
Geefiasco wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:11 pm I agree to an extent. I wanted a nice dress watch for my collection but there are none to be found sub £1K that are nice a simple designs.
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That’s beautiful. I will have a look into this, many thanks 👍
They are around $1000 CAD, so I'm guessing 6-700 GBP?
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by Geefiasco »

Lavaine wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:08 pm
Geefiasco wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:56 pm
Lavaine wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:47 pm
Hamilton Intramatic has entered the chat:
That’s beautiful. I will have a look into this, many thanks 👍
They are around $1000 CAD, so I'm guessing 6-700 GBP?
Roughly around that price. I'm seriously considering it. I'll watch a few reviews over the next week and make my decision. Cheers again :thumbup:
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by FloridaPhil »

Lavaine wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:01 am
FloridaPhil wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:51 pm So other brands rehash their model lineup and that excuses CW doing the same thing? Wow, true believers indeed.
Can you name a single brand that produces products that aren't profitable, and remains in business? If aviator, motorsport and dress watches were profitable, I'm sure CW would be producing them in droves.
I'm certainly not arguing that point and am confused as to why that's how you would interpret my post.

If other brands can produce lines, other than divers, that sell well and form part of a successful line-up then why can't CW? That's the point of the initial posting, isn't it?, the strong bias towards iterations of similar pieces.
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by Lavaine »

FloridaPhil wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:52 pm If other brands can produce lines, other than divers, that sell well and form part of a successful line-up then why can't CW?
Phil, I'm not sure why you are so hung up on this idea that CW MUST sell a ful range of styles, for no other reason than "other brands do it". They are a privately held company. They can choose to sell a single design in a single colorway if they choose to do so. By your logic, Cartier sells jewelry, so all watch brands should do the same. Fossil sells man bags, so should CW do the same? CW has found success with a narrow lineup, and a continual evolution and tweaking of said lineup. They don't need to produce a wide range of watches if they choose not to. Ferrari doesn't sell a pickup just because other brands have one. Why? because it's not in their business model. If the current CW business model doesn't include aviator and dress styles, then so be it.
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by Richard D »

Lavaine wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:32 pm
FloridaPhil wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:52 pm If other brands can produce lines, other than divers, that sell well and form part of a successful line-up then why can't CW?
Phil, I'm not sure why you are so hung up on this idea that CW MUST sell a ful range of styles, for no other reason than "other brands do it". They are a privately held company. They can choose to sell a single design in a single colorway if they choose to do so. By your logic, Cartier sells jewelry, so all watch brands should do the same. Fossil sells man bags, so should CW do the same? CW has found success with a narrow lineup, and a continual evolution and tweaking of said lineup. They don't need to produce a wide range of watches if they choose not to. Ferrari doesn't sell a pickup just because other brands have one. Why? because it's not in their business model. If the current CW business model doesn't include aviator and dress styles, then so be it.
I agree, if CW has found a lineup that works - good for them. I like their current diver offer, in the next few days I will be picking up a C60 #tide. As for a dress watch or anything else, plenty of choice elsewhere. :wink:
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by angusbon »

FloridaPhil wrote:
Lavaine wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:01 am
FloridaPhil wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:51 pm So other brands rehash their model lineup and that excuses CW doing the same thing? Wow, true believers indeed.
Can you name a single brand that produces products that aren't profitable, and remains in business? If aviator, motorsport and dress watches were profitable, I'm sure CW would be producing them in droves.
I'm certainly not arguing that point and am confused as to why that's how you would interpret my post.

If other brands can produce lines, other than divers, that sell well and form part of a successful line-up then why can't CW? That's the point of the initial posting, isn't it?, the strong bias towards iterations of similar pieces.
I agree with Phil completely....
Most on this thread are of the opinion that if it ain't broke don't fix it....
And that's fine, and obviously they're a business out to make money, so if that means churning out the same models from the same ranges with minor tweaks, again that's fine...
My point is do they want to be taken seriously as watchmakers or just a dive orientated brand with no imagination?
Surely a wide variety of different genres would show skill, innovation and attract new customers.
Hints of a minute repeater is actually, to me, the most interesting piece of gossip I've heard from the brand in years, and the development of the sh21, I great achievement for such a small microbrand, has been wasted.
Obviously these are only my thoughts

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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by FloridaPhil »

Lavaine wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:32 pm
FloridaPhil wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:52 pm If other brands can produce lines, other than divers, that sell well and form part of a successful line-up then why can't CW?
Phil, I'm not sure why you are so hung up on this idea that CW MUST sell a ful range of styles, for no other reason than "other brands do it". They are a privately held company. They can choose to sell a single design in a single colorway if they choose to do so. By your logic, Cartier sells jewelry, so all watch brands should do the same. Fossil sells man bags, so should CW do the same? CW has found success with a narrow lineup, and a continual evolution and tweaking of said lineup. They don't need to produce a wide range of watches if they choose not to. Ferrari doesn't sell a pickup just because other brands have one. Why? because it's not in their business model. If the current CW business model doesn't include aviator and dress styles, then so be it.
When it comes to you commenting on my comments, it would appear that you are jumping the shark, again.

OF COURSE CW is free to produce anything they want and, again, I am not saying they are not free to do so. Please do not ascribe to me statements or sentiments I didn't express.

'Same old, same old' is the title of this thread and I think that yes, yes it is. You are okay with that. I think it's somewhat lazy but hey, they can produce whatever the heck they want. And I can comment on it. Simples.
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by 100quattro »

I know I am a relative newcomer to the world of watch enthusiasm/collecting and my knowledge is limited……so please don5 shoot me down but….

Who are CW’s competitors? Or who do they perceive them to be - they are not necessarily the same?

Where do CW want to be? Who do they want to compete with?

What do other watch brands do? My impression is that CE are always looking at revolution whereas other established brands are more into evolution.

That is not to say that CW should follow others. I see them as more innovative and inspiring but, perhaps, lacking the focus of others.
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by johnnyhomersimpson »

So here's the thing...

I get an email from CW this morning and its a new watch announcement! Yes - you've guessed it - yet ANOTHER C60 derivative, this time its the C60 Anthropocene GMT!

This exactly illustrates my point when I created this topic! Its the same, same old , same old from CW. Yes it looks very nice, but its another C60, different dial, different bezel, and another version of the Sellita movements (what's happened to the SH21?), new strap colour, and that's it.

You can defend it all you like - but I think I'm going to cry! Just do something different guys!
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

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johnnyhomersimpson wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:26 pm So here's the thing...

I get an email from CW this morning and its a new watch announcement! Yes - you've guessed it - yet ANOTHER C60 derivative, this time its the C60 Anthropocene GMT!

This exactly illustrates my point when I created this topic! Its the same, same old , same old from CW. Yes it looks very nice, but its another C60, different dial, another version of the Sellita movements (what's happened to the SH21?), new strap colour, and that's it.

You can defend it all you like - but I think I'm going to cry! Just do something different guys!
Just a quick observation here, and I’m in no way, shape or form a CW fanboy these days so no bias here, but how many versions of the Aquis do Oris bring out and nobody is accusing them of anything. It’s their mainstay watch so they create as many different variants as they please, as CW seem to be doing with the Trident. Reason = they sell, pure and simple.
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by downer »

TigerChris wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:33 pm

Just a quick observation here, and I’m in no way, shape or form a CW fanboy these days so no bias here, but how many versions of the Aquis do Oris bring out and nobody is accusing them of anything. It’s their mainstay watch so they create as many different variants as they please, as CW seem to be doing with the Trident. Reason = they sell, pure and simple.
Absolutely, Chris. And we all need to remember, CW are not only trying to appeal to existing customers.

"Same old, same old" does not apply to new prospects.
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by Bungle-ator »

johnnyhomersimpson wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:26 pm So here's the thing...

I get an email from CW this morning and its a new watch announcement! Yes - you've guessed it - yet ANOTHER C60 derivative, this time its the C60 Anthropocene GMT!

This exactly illustrates my point when I created this topic! Its the same, same old , same old from CW. Yes it looks very nice, but its another C60, different dial, different bezel, and another version of the Sellita movements (what's happened to the SH21?), new strap colour, and that's it.

You can defend it all you like - but I think I'm going to cry! Just do something different guys!
It's rather boring and predictable. I read lots of speak of innovation on here but I'm not seeing it myself. Partially see through dials, push in crowns and supercompressors are copies from others, not innovations.

There's a lot to like but I think I'm struggling to see any longevity in the brand. Solely speaking for myself there.

It's very simple though, if they're not making what you want there's no need to be frustrated as I'm sure there are plenty out there that are. You're owe CW nothing, just as they're not owe you a pilot or a racing watch.
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by johnnyhomersimpson »

I'd say Oris have a much more eclectic range than CW at the moment, with 7 different style lines - and similar to CW in many ways another independent brand, and like CW a certain brand honesty (especially in their prices) with way more history and heritage than CW in all honesty.

Their signature watch is the Big Crown - I have one from 1993 - in blue, and its mostly the same as the one they have now. True, they do have more dive watches in the Aquis range - but not half as many as CW... I've lost count of how many versions of the C60 I can buy!
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