Same old, Same old from CW?

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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by sproughton »

Whilst it does seem to me that there's some rehashing of designs, doesn't that just suggest that they've found what sells and are doing their best to maximise that?

Designing new aviation lines is clearly not something they feel benefits them and therefore have stopped doing it. If multiple minor change to a C60/65 sell well, with lower development costs and time to market, it makes sense for them to focus on that, from a sales and profit point of view at least.
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by CM23 »

I feel there's still innovation and excitement within the brand, though some of my favourites are generally older models. The variety seems to have become more limited, but I wonder if this has been prompted by the pandemic, and the need to deliver sales as a priority.
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by Stuart1 »

nbg wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:33 pm
Stuart1 wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:57 pm The slimming down of the range could be in preparation for 're-branding '. With CW leaving it would be a good time. There must have been a significant notice period before public announcements.
Then 're-branding' followed with massive release of a new line up?
Did the reductions start with JJ leaving? In looking at the current line up most movements are straight purchases from Sellita. I do miss the dress watches both the slimline and 595 were favourites of mine.
But do echo most of the comments divers probably outsold the other ranges 4:1
Why do you think CW had a significant notice period before anything was made public?

Setting aside the point that in corporate life when a senior person leaves they are generally just gone, there is also the not insignificant detail that IIRC CW was not a significant shareholder in the business.

Neil
In my experience when someone from the senior management team leaves an organisation there is a significant notice plus 'gardening leave'. Usually, to ensure loose ends are tided up - NDA's and non-competitor agreements. While CW may have not been a significant shareholder, his name is on the dial. In business you would want legal recourse to ensure there was no bad publicity. Even amicable splits require a formal agreement of what happens going forward which would take time.
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by downer »

Stuart1 wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:54 pm
nbg wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:33 pm
Stuart1 wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:57 pm The slimming down of the range could be in preparation for 're-branding '. With CW leaving it would be a good time. There must have been a significant notice period before public announcements.
Then 're-branding' followed with massive release of a new line up?
Did the reductions start with JJ leaving? In looking at the current line up most movements are straight purchases from Sellita. I do miss the dress watches both the slimline and 595 were favourites of mine.
But do echo most of the comments divers probably outsold the other ranges 4:1
Why do you think CW had a significant notice period before anything was made public?

Setting aside the point that in corporate life when a senior person leaves they are generally just gone, there is also the not insignificant detail that IIRC CW was not a significant shareholder in the business.

Neil
In my experience when someone from the senior management team leaves an organisation there is a significant notice plus 'gardening leave'. Usually, to ensure loose ends are tided up - NDA's and non-competitor agreements. While CW may have not been a significant shareholder, his name is on the dial. In business you would want legal recourse to ensure there was no bad publicity. Even amicable splits require a formal agreement of what happens going forward which would take time.
I'm confused. What on earth does any of that have to do with the current range depth/breadth? Why would CW be rebranding?
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by Stuart1 »

downer wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:58 pm
Stuart1 wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:54 pm
nbg wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:33 pm
Why do you think CW had a significant notice period before anything was made public?

Setting aside the point that in corporate life when a senior person leaves they are generally just gone, there is also the not insignificant detail that IIRC CW was not a significant shareholder in the business.

Neil
In my experience when someone from the senior management team leaves an organisation there is a significant notice plus 'gardening leave'. Usually, to ensure loose ends are tided up - NDA's and non-competitor agreements. While CW may have not been a significant shareholder, his name is on the dial. In business you would want legal recourse to ensure there was no bad publicity. Even amicable splits require a formal agreement of what happens going forward which would take time.
I'm confused. What on earth does any of that have to do with the current range depth/breadth? Cost of re-branding over lots of products. Smaller range less costs followed new range, new logo, more marketing etc.
Why would CW be rebranding?

Because CW left. While initial 're-branding' maybe minor e.g. More use of flag logo. Followed by a major in time - showing a new way forward.
Look at Vauxhall cars since being sold by GM and being run by PSA / Fiat
Last edited by Amor Vincit Omnia on Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Separated quote and comment for clarity
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by nbg »

Stuart1 wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:54 pm
nbg wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:33 pm
Stuart1 wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:57 pm The slimming down of the range could be in preparation for 're-branding '. With CW leaving it would be a good time. There must have been a significant notice period before public announcements.
Then 're-branding' followed with massive release of a new line up?
Did the reductions start with JJ leaving? In looking at the current line up most movements are straight purchases from Sellita. I do miss the dress watches both the slimline and 595 were favourites of mine.
But do echo most of the comments divers probably outsold the other ranges 4:1
Why do you think CW had a significant notice period before anything was made public?

Setting aside the point that in corporate life when a senior person leaves they are generally just gone, there is also the not insignificant detail that IIRC CW was not a significant shareholder in the business.

Neil
In my experience when someone from the senior management team leaves an organisation there is a significant notice plus 'gardening leave'. Usually, to ensure loose ends are tided up - NDA's and non-competitor agreements. While CW may have not been a significant shareholder, his name is on the dial. In business you would want legal recourse to ensure there was no bad publicity. Even amicable splits require a formal agreement of what happens going forward which would take time.
Well I reckon I know all that.

It’s just the thought that someone senior leaves (for whatever reason) and it’s kept quiet for ages! :lol:

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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by downer »

Stuart1 wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:14 pm
downer wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:58 pm

I'm confused. What on earth does any of that have to do with the current range depth/breadth? Cost of re-branding over lots of products. Smaller range less costs followed new range, new logo, more marketing etc.
Why would CW be rebranding?

Because CW left. While initial 're-branding' maybe minor e.g. More use of flag logo. Followed by a major in time - showing a new way forward.
Look at Vauxhall cars since being sold by GM and being run by PSA / Fiat
So because CW left, they will rebrand and therefore, the current range is slimmed down in preparation?

If that's your hypothesis, there's a hell of a lot of assumptions and I don't really see the logic at all.
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »


Stuart1 wrote: Look at Vauxhall cars since being sold by GM and being run by PSA / Fiat
They were? What about them?

Maybe I'm naive, but I hadn't noticed.

They still look like Vauxhalls to me.

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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by Thermexman »

Label says pull pin, count to 3, then throw…
…then what?
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by FloridaPhil »

Thermexman wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:41 pm Label says pull pin, count to 3, then throw…
…then what?
Run like hell. :lol:
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by Thermexman »

^^^that would make sense! :lol:
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by ProfGlenn »

It’s true that the breadth of watches on offer has reduced – but this is a good move in my view – otherwise the company ends up with a load of watches they have to put on at half price in a January frenzy -this is very bad for brand equity. Instead, they really are working out what people want and introducing more variety into those models. This means less for us in the sales and it will drive the brand equity up, and this is a good thing. Personally I really do think the C60 mkiii case is one of the best cases, of ANY watch, out there. And because they are focussing on dive/sport, this does not mean there is no innovation – far from it. The sapphire, quick release bracelets, super compressor, black and gold case, the split C7 coloured cases, the retractable crown…some real innovation. The C60 MKIII is a winner. The C65 is a winner. The C63 is a winner. They deserve real credit and they will do well from all of these. They have got the case designs spot on with these watches. If I had one criticism, I’d like to see a little bit more colour. I am sure it will come. We can also see evidence of CW’s brainstorming in the prototypes some of us have seen and been fortunate enough to pick up….. different takes on the bronze, gold cases, opaque sapphires, different coloured bezels. As for those harking back to the old days…..I doubt Tudor will ever make another submariner…..some watches are cult watches and this is a healthy thing for a brand. The C70s, the C11s, the C7s……there is a healthy market for these watches – some of them fetching premiums – this is healthy too. I find CW daring. They will try new things – and for those that criticise Tudor’s different takes on the Black Bay, well a bronze bracelet and a solid silver case are pretty innovative, I’d say! Personally, as a Tudor fan, I do not understand what they are doing with some of their dress watches!

Anyway, I think CW are doing the right thing if they want to make money. If the January and summer sales are no more, that would be a good thing. The c60 Tide bezel is sensational! My one criticism would me: please can we have more colour. If Rolex dare do it with their OP range (and the yellow and turqiouse ones are fetching over twice RRP on the grey market) then so should others!
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by Jkpa »

While I love divers and chronos - my collection is comprised almost exclusively of those types of watches- I also would welcome more variety. My C1 Grand Malvern Small Seconds is a good example of how amazing CW watches can be. Nothing against a good GMT and diver but it's so "meh". Everyone does them. Those sell, no doubt, but for me, I'm not really interested enough in the newest models to buy them.
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by thomcat00 »

Innovation and differentiation are, I think, still happening with Christopher Ward even as it appears to be in a narrower variety of watch types. The sapphire dials, the entirety of the Sealander range, and the #tide materials add freshness to the line. Perhaps we will see the use of sapphire dials in new dressier watches, Motorsport, or aviators. Or some other features such as the retracting crown. I think they may have gone after the dive theme as the divers sell well.

I have a mix of older and newer CW watches among my pieces. I prefer a dressier watch even as my daily attire doesn’t reflect that preference. While I won’t wear my mechanical Rolex or CW while mowing the grass, I have no problem wearing - and often do - my quartz Omega or other similar watch while engaged in yard work.

Like Glenn and others, I’d like to see a greater use of color in the CW line. That degree of added variety can make up for the perceived shortcomings of the existing pieces.
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Re: Same old, Same old from CW?

Post by Lavaine »

Rolex "innovated" by increasing the size of the Submariner from 40 to 41mm, and in the process doubled (or more) wait times to buy one at RRP. I don't think variety and innovation are what the watch buying public (not the tiny minority that inhabit watch forums) wants.

Variety is great. I would love to see another CW Aviator range, but CW are a business (much like Rolex), and they are going to produce what sells. Nobody is paying them to produce money-losing watch lines, regardless of what people may say they want. They are making what sells. It's really that simple.
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