I reached out to CW last week to try and get more details about this subject as well as point Mike France to this topic. I apologize for not posting Mik'e response earlier, but due to a recent death in the family I have been a bit behind.

Here is his response...

I am pleased to tell you that from next Monday 21st October, we will be automatically refunding duties paid by our customers on returns to Maidenhead – on a worldwide basis. This will cost us circa £100k pa until we can get all the IT plumbing sorted with our partners such as DHL, but I want us to be the easiest business to do business with in this regard and it is worth us bearing that cost for that reason.

I still have some questions and am awaiting a response. I do not know the minute details of the existing policy or how the new policy will be worded when posted, but it is a positive response. I am also unaware of when the CW staff will be informed of the new policy.

I do agree that this is how it should have been to start with and am happy that CW is correcting the flaw in the system.

Dear me, Mike France now wants our pity and our empathy for him to implement a lawful and customer-centric refund system. He was obviously happier with the £100k pa in the bank, but ripping off customers in the process.

Just goes to show doesn't it...

I think, and I stress that this is my opinion, it is more like CW doesn't get the duties refunded to them currently so they will be paying out of pocket refunds until a mutual system is set up with DHL and/or other carriers. I don't believe for a moment that CW pockets the duty fees currently upon refunds.

How can they be pocketing funds that have been paid to the US government??

With that said, their new policy will certainly motivate them to do something about the problem, now that it's their own bottomline that is being affected.

Kip wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 7:21 pm I think, and I stress that this is my opinion, it is more like CW doesn't get the duties refunded to them currently so they will be paying out of pocket refunds until a mutual system is set up with DHL and/or other carriers. I don't believe for a moment that CW pockets the duty fees currently upon refunds.

This is a choice. In my case and the others who have posted, Customer Support would have wasted less time telling us why they could not do it rather than just email DHL and complete the process. I understand that a manual process will take longer then the integrated system they are planning to setup but they should have thought about this a long time ago when they decided to start collecting USA Import Duty.

nycWATCHnerd wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 1:13 pm

Kip wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 7:21 pm I think, and I stress that this is my opinion, it is more like CW doesn't get the duties refunded to them currently so they will be paying out of pocket refunds until a mutual system is set up with DHL and/or other carriers. I don't believe for a moment that CW pockets the duty fees currently upon refunds.

This is a choice. In my case and the others who have posted, Customer Support would have wasted less time telling us why they could not do it rather than just email DHL and complete the process. I understand that a manual process will take longer then the integrated system they are planning to setup but they should have thought about this a long time ago when they decided to start collecting USA Import Duty.

The way I read it that probably wasn't possible. I am guessing that they pay DHL in bulk payments and DHL wasn't willing to unwind it for a single order. I would not put something like that past DHL for a second. CW probably refunded a couple and tried to recoup the payment a couple of times and DHL refused. After that CW quite trying and said they couldn't (this is where they really messed up - see below). At any rate, lets not throw out the baby with the bathwater here. It is going to be fixed and in the meantime it will work as it should.

It is something that CW should have had worked out from the beginning. It is also something that when customer support was having issues with the duty it should have been elevated to the highest levels of the company immediately. It is also unfortunate that there had to be a few customers thrown to the wolves before it got resolved.

rkovars wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 8:17 pm ...I am guessing that they pay DHL in bulk payments and DHL wasn't willing to unwind it for a single order...

It's done on a package by package basis. This is probably why it is more work for CWL and DHL to deal with it manually but since everything is computerized, they simply need to integrate their systems (as Mike France suggested) to automate this going forward. It is not as-if CWL are the only ones who have ever had to deal with this before.

rkovars wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 8:17 pm It is something that CW should have had worked out from the beginning. It is also something that when customer support was having issues with the duty it should have been elevated to the highest levels of the company immediately. It is also unfortunate that there had to be a few customers thrown to the wolves before it got resolved.

For me, it was a complete waste of time.
And it is going to take a long time for me to get past it, if ever, before I consider purchasing another CWL watch.


I received my USA Import Duty back yesterday.


More than 3 weeks of back and forth and lots of wasted time (even before starting this thread) dealing with CWL Customer Support and trying to get DHL to do something they were never going to do for me as the customer.


Maybe most importantly, CWL has never replied and wanted to deal with my question (earlier in this thread on page 1):
Why was the Import Duty I paid in August using a coupon which discounted the watch price 15%, more than it would be if I purchased the exact same watch paying full price and had it sent to the exact same address today (in October)?

Credit to MF/CW for the change in duty refund policy. It makes all the sense in the world to make the customer whole, and then go work on their own refunds from DHL/the US Government on the back end (or any other place duties are paid to).

This will alleviate some of that angst that I and others have had when considering a new CW over that threshold of $800 for US imports (which may change – I read some new proposals in the last week or so where the threshold would be removed, mainly in relation to China imports but maybe also other places will be affected).

Here's the press release from the White House

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... d%20taxes.

It doesn't seem if the de minimis exemption is, strictly speaking, going away. Reporting requirements will change though. As I read the above it doesn't seem to change much in CW world.

albionphoto wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 6:25 pm Here's the press release from the White House

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... d%20taxes.

It doesn't seem if the de minimis exemption is, strictly speaking, going away. Reporting requirements will change though. As I read the above it doesn't seem to change much in CW world.

If I am reading it correctly, it seems that this could actually hurt in the long run. One of the proposals is to exclude textile and apparel products from being eligible to claim de minimis status. Looking around, I saw an official trade organization for fashion defining apparel as encompassing the entire spectrum of clothing options available to individuals, including underwear, bags, shoes, jewelry, dresses, jackets, and accessories like hats, scarves, and belts. (emphasis mine)

If that is the accepted definition of apparel and watches fall under jewelry the $800 limit would go away and duty/tariffs would be owed on any watch imported, especially the Chinese brands. As with anything the devil will be in the details.

rkovars wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 6:47 pm

albionphoto wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 6:25 pm Here's the press release from the White House

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... d%20taxes.

It doesn't seem if the de minimis exemption is, strictly speaking, going away. Reporting requirements will change though. As I read the above it doesn't seem to change much in CW world.

If I am reading it correctly, it seems that this could actually hurt in the long run. One of the proposals is to exclude textile and apparel products from being eligible to claim de minimis status. Looking around, I saw an official trade organization for fashion defining apparel as encompassing the entire spectrum of clothing options available to individuals, including underwear, bags, shoes, jewelry, dresses, jackets, and accessories like hats, scarves, and belts. (emphasis mine)

If that is the accepted definition of apparel and watches fall under jewelry the $800 limit would go away and duty/tariffs would be owed on any watch imported, especially the Chinese brands. As with anything the devil will be in the details.

Let's be clear, this has nothing to do with protecting consumers no matter how much they protest it does.

This is simply...
- Protectionism of American Jobs (and the desire to bring manufacturing back to America).
- Ensuring that the government gets its pound of flesh (aka revenue) regarding import duty payments.

It was nice while it lasted but it seems I will no longer try to get bike parts, watches, and other items that are actually under the $800 limit imported into the USA because it will not be worth the hassle when they get tangled up in customs which can last weeks/months. Having been down this road before, it is "guilty until proven innocent" with USA Customs (and Border Protection). Meaning, all packages are assumed illegal and/or Require Import Duty unless you jump though all the hoops to prove otherwise. IMHO, not worth the hassle.

A little video from Mark at Long Island Watches about importing into the USA

Surely it's inevitable that CW sets up shop in the US - not just a showroom? The US business will be as big as Europe and all this tax stuff should go away. I can't imagine they'll continue selling the way they do, it's difficult for consumers and that's the last thing you want.

^^^^ If, and it's a big IF, CW sets up shop fully in the US the Tax Stuff won't magically go away, it will still be present in the background, it's just the customer won't get involved in it; which is what CW has tried to do with DDP.

Objectively it's no different currently to me, here in the UK, buying a Visitor from the USA, or a DRAKEN from New Zealand - I still have to deal with the Tax on import into the UK; although the criteria for charges seem simpler.

Guy

Has anyone here had experience returning watches from EU? I'm curious about how straightforward the process is. The website mentions a 60-day return policy, and they only sell online. So, if you receive the watch and find it’s not what you wanted, is it easy to send it back for a full refund?

Also, if there are any taxes or duties that aren’t refunded (I don`t know how the system is in EU), can we just request a chargeback through our credit card to avoid dealing with CW or customs authorities?