Hello,


Wanted to describe the process for a return for repair under warranty if you're located in the USA. Needed to send in a Trident 600 Mk3 that I got secondhand from Wardhoard.com.

Contacted CW, spent a couple emails back and forth describing the problem and giving my required information. This was my first return under warranty, so I had lots of questions.

Got a return packet, please be careful to read all the instructions. It's crucial!

Scheduled a DHL pickup since my nearest drop off location was about half an hour away, and the delivery driver showed up in a couple of hours. One interesting thing to note is that I had to wait to tape up the package until the driver inspected the contents of the package. Made it somewhat frustrating to fling all the packing peanuts out of the box to show that it was a watch, and then repack it all while the driver watched me.

Once it was in DHL's hands, the entire process was worry free. Made it to the UK a few days later, then CW started to process it.

Soon enough it was on its way back to me, apparently the reverse wheels were the culprit, so once it was fixed it was it's way after being quality checked and pressure tested.

Now it's back in my hands, hopefully to run without issue for a long time.

The only things I would change about the process is the pre ship inspection, and I wish CW would include a note on the return documents as to what the issue was. I had to inquire to customer service to find out what had broken. But that's merely for my own curiosity.

Overall, I would give the experience 9 out of 10 stars. They really took care of me and I appreciate it.

Gawith4life wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 1:54 pm
... apparently the reverse wheels were the culprit...

... I wish CW would include a note on the return documents as to what the issue was...

Glad to know you had a good warranty/service experience.

Two things to note:
1) The "reverser" wheel issue is a known problem that dates back to the earliest days of the ETA 2824 movement. It was supposedly fixed by Selita on their SW200-2 movement (ETA 2824 clone) but there have been so many reports to the contrary. The point is, DO NOT hand wind your watch to full but rather give it a few winds if it is out of power and then let the auto-wind feature work while you wear the watch.

I had the same issue, and repair, on both my Oris Pro Pilot with a Selita 220 movement and a Hamilton with the ETA 2824. Now I simply give it a few turns rather than fully wind either one before I wear them (assuming they have stopped).

2) This is only my opinion but I doubt CWL wants larger repair issues such as this one to be known publicly. Also, most people do not care and just want the fixed watch back asap. IME, Rolex will tell you what is wrong for an out of warranty service/repair but do not disclose the same information for a warranty repair so CWL is not the only company to withhold information.

nycWATCHnerd wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 3:05 pm

Gawith4life wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 1:54 pm
... apparently the reverse wheels were the culprit...

... I wish CW would include a note on the return documents as to what the issue was...

Glad to know you had a good warranty/service experience.

Two things to note:
1) The "reverser" wheel issue is a known problem that dates back to the earliest days of the ETA 2824 movement. It was supposedly fixed by Selita on their SW200-2 movement (ETA 2824 clone) but there have been so many reports to the contrary. The point is, DO NOT hand wind your watch to full but rather give it a few winds if it is out of power and then let the auto-wind feature work while you wear the watch.

I had the same issue, and repair, on both my Oris Pro Pilot with a Selita 220 movement and a Hamilton with the ETA 2824. Now I simply give it a few turns rather than fully wind either one before I wear them (assuming they have stopped).

2) This is only my opinion but I doubt CWL wants larger repair issues such as this one to be known publicly. Also, most people do not care and just want the fixed watch back asap. IME, Rolex will tell you what is wrong for an out of warranty service/repair but do not disclose the same information for a warranty repair so CWL is not the only company to withhold information.

I was not aware of that problem! I'll just wind it enough to get it going and set, then pop it on to charge the rest of the way.

Wanting to know what was broken was merely to sate my curiosity. I am not a watchmaker or even know what a reverse wheel does, but I find it neat to learn as I go.

Gawith4life wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 4:22 pm
I was not aware of that problem! I'll just wind it enough to get it going and set, then pop it on to charge the rest of the way.

Wanting to know what was broken was merely to sate my curiosity. I am not a watchmaker or even know what a reverse wheel does, but I find it neat to learn as I go.

As far as I know, the repair does not stop it from happening again so follow the "just turn the crown a few times to get it going" advice or you may end up with an out of warranty repair charge as I did.

And then read up on the issue here:
https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php? ... n-ETA-2824

Gawith4life wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 4:22 pm
I was not aware of that problem! I'll just wind it enough to get it going and set, then pop it on to charge the rest of the way.

Wanting to know what was broken was merely to sate my curiosity. I am not a watchmaker or even know what a reverse wheel does, but I find it neat to learn as I go.

Reverser wheels are part of the auto-winding system and allow the rotor to wind the mainspring when it spins in both directions as opposed to a single direction like a Valjoux 7750 or a Miyota 9000 series movement.

It can happen to any movement with reverser wheels. From time to time you even see it in the Rolex forums. I think Rolex has largely eliminated the problem by coating the reverser wheels with Teflon but it hasn't eliminated it entirely.

Unidirectional movements have a single reversing wheel and a second wheel called an intermediate sliding wheel that moves out of the way so that the rotor can spin freely.

Here is a pretty good explanation of how an automatic winding system works. You can see that you need at least one reverser wheel to get the system to work.



@nycWATCHnerd I don't think there is an SW200-2. There is only an SW200-1 (there is a 2824-2 ETA and an SW330-2). The modification to dash 1 wasn't to address spinning rotor of the reverser wheels sticking. It was to address the ratchet wheel teeth breaking when hand winding. The ECO called out three parts to be changed: The reduction wheel, the ratchet wheel and the ratchet wheel drive wheel.

The culprit for stuck reversing wheels is usually over lubrication. It is my understanding that a lot of brands actually disassemble and perform a full service on brand new movements delivered from Sellita to help combat this issue (for some reason I remember someone from Monta saying they do this). I don't think CW does this.

Edit to add: If anyone is interested in looking at the bulletin it can be found here: https://www.cousinsuk.com/pdf/categorie ... w200-1.pdf

Gawith4life wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2024 1:54 pm
Got a return packet, please be careful to read all the instructions. It's crucial!

Scheduled a DHL pickup since my nearest drop off location was about half an hour away, and the delivery driver showed up in a couple of hours. One interesting thing to note is that I had to wait to tape up the package until the driver inspected the contents of the package. Made it somewhat frustrating to fling all the packing peanuts out of the box to show that it was a watch, and then repack it all while the driver watched me.

Once it was in DHL's hands, the entire process was worry free. Made it to the UK a few days later, then CW started to process it.

I also had to return a watch to CW for service recently and had to schedule a DHL pick up from my house in the US. The pdf is 5 pages long. It has two shipping labels, two commercial invoices and then the instructions on what you actually have to do. These were from late October this year. They do call out the need to leave the package open but don't tell you what to do with the commercial invoices.
Here's my guidance:
Attach one shipping label to the box
Give one shipping label to the driver
Put one commercial invoice in the box
Give one commercial invoice to the driver
Leave the box open for the driver to inspect (note - my driver said it was okay to seal the box lightly as the contents will be inspected at their office)

The process does work and it works well. The pickup was easy and DHL handled everything flawlessly. The instructions from CW could be a bit clearer and include what to do with each page. The actual shipping process was fine and my watch was received in the UK within 4 days (if memory serves). I hope that the return process is just as easy.

Wait the courier inspects the contents...finding out it's an decently costing watch. Is this safe...I know we should trust the courier but having the contents "inspected" would have worry.

major47 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 3:00 am Wait the courier inspects the contents...finding out it's an decently costing watch. Is this safe...I know we should trust the courier but having the contents "inspected" would have worry.

And this is exactly why for my CWL via DHL return (and returns from other companies) I always go to the Depot/Counter. DHL "inspects" to protect themselves which is why once it is inspected at the Depot and then sealed, I take a few pictures so I have proof that the watch is inside.

No offense to any delivery drivers, and this may be my non-trusting New Yorker self, but I would never leave an open box with a driver because too many bad things can happen. I will not even drop off an Amazon return at UPS unless I have boxed it myself.

That's why you tape it down before the driver leaves.

albionphoto wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 9:54 pm That's why you tape it down before the driver leaves.

You live in NJ and should know not to trust drivers in the NY/NJ metro area.

My driver told me to tape it shut, so I did. You clearly think that everyone is a potential or actual thief about to steal your belongings. A professional concern for you but paranoid too, If a driver in a DHL uniform, with correct ID, truck and electronics is a risk then so is everyone, possibly including myself. Heck, I'm going to steal my own watch and defraud DHL and CW. I don't want to drive 30 miles to a sketchy DHL location so I'll trust the driver. If you don't want to do this, that's fine. I do wonder if you have some proper controlled, reliable numbers relating thefts of items by DHL drivers under these circumstances to other areas? If you do please publish them with all sources and I'll make my own mind up. Sources and references will be required.

albionphoto wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 1:28 am A professional concern for you...

I work in IT, specifically Cybersecurity Consulting, so you are correct that I do not trust anyone because I see the worst in people everyday.

Asking for references and statistics about driver theft if foolish and I am sure you know that. No public company is going to advertise it and they do everything they can do to cover it up which does not mean it does not actually happen. Just google it and you will find more than enough examples from reputable news sources to prove that it is a serious issue.

Interesting reading this thread. I will share my Return Experience: USA. The closest DHL comes to my house is a 3 hour drive to Wichita. There won’t be any return packet, shipping labels or instructions. I was told regretfully by the customer service representative that none of the Christopher Ward couriers service my area & I would need to arrange for a courier. I expected as much because DHL always hands off my watch packages to the USPS in Wichita. That’s the reason that I inquired this evening on the forum on how to address my return package. Being an international shipment, I did want to be absolutely sure that I had it right. I did appreciate receiving an immediate answer here. I have been given a number to provide to be reimbursed for the shipping. Fair enough. I imagine that I will have a customs declaration form to fill out when I take my package to the post office tomorrow. And, I will most likely figure it out. Not saying that my USA return experience is a bad one. The CW representatives have been courteous. The six hour time differential can be a little frustrating as we seem to get one message back & forth each day. I wouldn’t say the experience is bad but it’s a little more complicated & different than for the rest of my countrymen that live in a more civilized part of the world.

Delmar

I emailed last night and got a response this morning about packaging and shipment. They were kind enough to ask if I had hand wound the watch to check the power reserve.

I replied that I had wound it fully at 2 PM this past Monday wore it every day and took it off at 11 PM Wednesday. It had stopped running at 6 AM Thursday.

When the DHL courier arrived this afternoon for a strap delivery he checked the watch, took the paperwork, and was kind enough to wait a bit while I added some extra padding inside and taped everything up. Tracking is already showing it's been picked up and should be in the UK by the 25th.

A pretty seamless process after the initial confusion. Fingers are crossed it arrives safe and sound.

Not so sure that I would call my return experience seamless. I spent a good 45 minutes at the local post office getting my package posted. It wasn't difficult to tell that the postal clerk operating in rural Kansas rarely does international shipping. Eventually, I received a customs declaration to fill out, which I took to one side. During the process, the clerk kept working other customers around me because mine was "an international order". None of the customers transactions were uncomplicated or quick. I will say the clerk never asked me to unseal the package, just asked me what it was & the approximate value. I did smile when she said, you filled this customs declaration out wrong. "You are supposed to put an individual's name on the top line. What is the name of the business?" My laconic reply was "I am not sending it to an individual & I didn't fill it out wrong. The company's name is Christopher Ward." I did find out that the USPS doesn't support international shipments with insurance coverage, so I do hope that it gets there. She said, "Here is a tracking number, although it won't do you much good once it leaves the States." I guess that is what you get for $78, which the CW representative said that they would compensate me for. I am wondering for future reference; would Fed Ex be a better international shipping option? Eventually, I will have a watch to service, so it would be good to know. My summary is the return process isn't quite so seamless or simple if you live outside the DHL delivery zones.

Delmar