Sunday 5:30am musings…

Actually a question I’ve wanted to ask for a little while, could likely be asked to a knowledgeable forum member by PM, but I thought if there are answers to the question it might be useful more generally.

My question is, how are minor variations to models distinguished or captured anywhere? The three I’m most aware of are:

1. Logo changes, most recently the move from “Christopher Ward” to the twin flags logo.
2. Move from printed to applied logos
3. Changes to bracelets e.g., micro-adjust

I might be wrong but I don’t think SKUs typically get adjusted for these changes, but is there any kind of way of knowing what other variants exist of the same model? And how would one refer to these other than, for example, “SKU [XYZ] with applied twin flags logo”.

Please also correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think the Forum Archive captures these variants either (not a criticism by the way… just a confirmation I’m not missing something.)

In part it’s a selfish question because I was thinking about a couple of WTBs in sales corner and want to make sure I’m asking for the right thing (or know what I’m asking for.)

The other part of my question was triggered by a question by @JAFO in a different thread:

JAFO wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2025 8:54 pm What would other watch makers do? When they update a model, do they a) dispose of existing old style product, b) do they sell any existing stock at a discount, or do they c) just gradually bring the new style on stream.

I’m not aware of many other brands that introduce changes to watches without releasing a new model reference. Or at least labeling them Generation 1, 2 etc. Just to be clear on what variant anyone is buying. Is this something that could be considered just to prevent people not quite knowing what they’re getting? CS also seem a little confused on what’s what from time to time.

Thanks for any help on this.
T&B

timepieces_and_bags wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2025 10:58 am Sunday 5:30am musings…

Actually a question I’ve wanted to ask for a little while, could likely be asked to a knowledgeable forum member by PM, but I thought if there are answers to the question it might be useful more generally.

My question is, how are minor variations to models distinguished or captured anywhere? The three I’m most aware of are:

1. Logo changes, most recently the move from “Christopher Ward” to the twin flags logo.
2. Move from printed to applied logos
3. Changes to bracelets e.g., micro-adjust

I might be wrong but I don’t think SKUs typically get adjusted for these changes, but is there any kind of way of knowing what other variants exist of the same model? And how would one refer to these other than, for example, “SKU [XYZ] with applied twin flags logo”.

Please also correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think the Forum Archive captures these variants either (not a criticism by the way… just a confirmation I’m not missing something.)

In part it’s a selfish question because I was thinking about a couple of WTBs in sales corner and want to make sure I’m asking for the right thing (or know what I’m asking for.)

The other part of my question was triggered by a question by @JAFO in a different thread:

JAFO wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2025 8:54 pm What would other watch makers do? When they update a model, do they a) dispose of existing old style product, b) do they sell any existing stock at a discount, or do they c) just gradually bring the new style on stream.

I’m not aware of many other brands that introduce changes to watches without releasing a new model reference. Or at least labeling them Generation 1, 2 etc. Just to be clear on what variant anyone is buying. Is this something that could be considered just to prevent people not quite knowing what they’re getting? CS also seem a little confused on what’s what from time to time.

Thanks for any help on this.
T&B

I will take a stab at this for you.

1. Logo changes are shown here in the Archives. For individual models/variant you will need to search. When possible with running production changes we make notes under the models. If there is a sku change we try to provide individual photos/sku's when possible.

Ex. You may note in the case of the C60 Trident Pro 600 Automatic there are 4 pages of variants. This is because the bezel was changed from aluminum to ceramic. The sku's were changed to reflect this. There was no logo change at that time.

In the case of the C63 Sealanders, when the logo was changed from V3 to V4 there was no primary sku change as this was a running production change.

2. In the case of printed to applied logos. With the exception of new models, this was done as a running production change and a minor change was made to the sku (note changes from B0 to B1 on some sku's). We do show these variants when possible.

3. Bracelet changes are a nightmare to keep track of. This is something we are currently working on for the CWA. Unfortunately not all bracelets have clear markings on them. When we can we make note of some of the changes in the notes section of the models/variants.

We are attempting to get gather as much info as possible and build a cross reference as well for the bracelet section. We are also gathering original sku's but this doesn't necessarily help anyone in the future so we are attempting to devise a simple way of identification so one can pick up the changes such as quick release, micro adjust etc.this is going to take awhile.

Making sense of all the changes and relaying it in a format that is easy to understand can be difficult at times. I hope this helps a little.

Thank you @Kip, this is extremely helpful for someone new like me.

My question was partly driven by the C60 Chronograph which, I think I’m right in saying was produced with both the V3 and V4 logo. I assume then because the logo update was made as part of running production that’s why I see no different variants for the V4 logo?

Sorry for what are probably rather simple questions. And just to be abundantly clear, in no way at all intended to be a criticism of the Archive which is a phenomenal resource, just trying to navigate my way around!

timepieces_and_bags wrote:
. . . . . .

My question was partly driven by the C60 Chronograph which, I think I’m right in saying was produced with both the V3 and V4 logo. I assume then because the logo update was made as part of running production that’s why I see no different variants for the V4 logo?

. . . . .

Correct.

The C60 Chronograph #BumbleBeast was produced with the V3 logo and V4 (printed not applied) with the switch being a running change.

Guy



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timepieces_and_bags wrote: ↑Sun Feb 09, 2025 10:58 am I’m not aware of many other brands that introduce changes to watches without releasing a new model reference.
Or at least labeling them Generation 1, 2 etc.

I think it depends...Here is one major and one micro brand that are known to do running production changes and not change model number and/or SKU

- Rolex did this for years and is still known to do it: change color/hue Pepsi ceramic bezel on GMT Master II, change color/hue on Green ceramic bezel on Submariner, Explorer II 16570 holes case, 16570 no holes case, 16570 different lume, and many more changes on older/vintage models.

- Marc/Owner of Long Island Watch always does running production changes (bracelets, casebacks, hands, movements, etc.) on his Islander Watches and never changes the SKU but updates the specs section of the website listing and sometimes mentions it in a video.