NPD T4 project

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ssholloway21
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by ssholloway21 »

Kip wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:31 am I have been advised that the CW NPD is watching this topic with great interest!!

The Admin Team will be summarizing each part of the watch prior to forwarding to the CW NPD Team. It will be broken down as follows.

Case
Case Back
Bezel
Crystal
Movement
Dial/hands
Logo/Twin Flag device
Bracelet/straps
Misc./comments

I would like to try keying in on one segment at a time here.

After reviewing the suggestions so far, I will try to summarize the case/case back suggestions. I will split out the case/caseback comments later.

It would seem that most would like to simply retain the current Lightcatcher case style. Though some would prefer fewer polished surfaces.

Most would like to see a thinner case (currently at 13.4 for the 42 mm size). If that height reduction could be reduced to 12mm that would be great.

Most understand that this may reduce the ATM rating from 60 atm to 30 atm and a good many are willing to accept that. Especially if current price points could be retained.

The majority feel that even though 60 atm is better than most makers, despite marketing, it is unnecessary for the majority and 30 atm is more than sufficient for daily use.

To help achieve a thinner case, possibly an exhibition case back could be utilized or at least an available option.

If there is a reduction in ATM to achieve a thinner case, then possibly making 2 versions (30 and 60) should be considered. Perhaps an upscale model that might feature the current solid case back and even a titanium case has been suggested.

Seems to be a mixed bag regarding case sizes. Some would like to see the current 38,40 and 42mm sizes retained. Other have suggested a change to only a 39 and 41mm size featuring a 20mm strap size.

The case back suggestions (also seemingly a split decision) have been limited to the use of an exhibition case back while others vote for retaining the solid case back. Depend on final choices an exhibition case back would like to be seen as an available option.

A couple have mentioned removing CW from the dial and placing on the case back.

The above being said, there are some against reducing the atm rating or offering both 30 and 60 atm models or offering an exhibition case back in a diver.

Did I miss anything?

Lets focus the discussion on these case aspects for now and then I will summarize the others and we can do those. However, do not let the focus dissuade anyone from making further comments. I will pick those up as we move along.
I vote for an exhibition case back only if they decorate the movement and use a skeletonized rotor so you can see more of the movement. It is a tough call because the trident on the case back looks cool. I would vote for a cool trident on the skeletonized rotor to keep that theme if they go with the exhibition case back. I like the 60 ATM because CW offers more specs for the money. I vote to retain the current sizes since I am selfish and like a 42mm. If you did remove CW from the dial you could have it on the metal around the exhibition case back, where they currently have some specs listed on models.

Kip, thank you for keeping track of all this! I am sure everyone appreciates it.
johncolescarr
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by johncolescarr »

Regarding the word mark branding, how about engraving the full Christopher Ward on the rehaut ala the big crown?
Diver C60 Trident 600 mk2 43mm
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timor54
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by timor54 »

Kip wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:31 am
After reviewing the suggestions so far, I will try to summarize the case/case back suggestions. I will split out the case/caseback comments later.

Did I miss anything?

Lets focus the discussion on these case aspects for now and then I will summarize the others and we can do those. However, do not let the focus dissuade anyone from making further comments. I will pick those up as we move along.
Kip, thank you for coordinating this. A Sisyphean task that’s also going to be as slippery as an eel!

I forgot to mention case diameter but I’d like to see just two options for a base family: 39mm and 41/42mm. A 39mm would potentially satisfy both the existing 38/40mm desire and would really suit a narrower bezel.

With regards display casebacks, I’ve always believed that they add depth to a case? For a 300m rated case aiming to be close to 12mm thick then surely a solid caseback is a better option?
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Amor Vincit Omnia
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

timor54 wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:40 am
Kip, thank you for coordinating this. A Sisyphean task that’s also going to be as slippery as an eel!
Further tasks will of course include Ixion, Tantalus, Prometheus and the Danaïdes. Volunteering to help, Tim? :D
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by jtc »

ssholloway21 wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:15 am I would vote for a cool trident on the skeletonized rotor to keep that theme if they go with the exhibition case back.
I like the idea of a Trident shaped rotor. Twin flag finishing to the movement bridge etc, then a stylised trident for the rotor. That would be cool and offer a nod to the solid caseback designs of previous models.
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by timor54 »

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:47 am
timor54 wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:40 am
Kip, thank you for coordinating this. A Sisyphean task that’s also going to be as slippery as an eel!
Further tasks will of course include Ixion, Tantalus, Prometheus and the Danaïdes. Volunteering to help, Tim? :D
Steve, I'm sure that whatever features we desire will remain just out of reach for eternity [-o<
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Richard D »

With all these ideas CW could adopt Bremont’s configure your Martin-Baker to build a personal version of a C60 from a selection of dials, bezels, casebacks, etc……

https://www.bremont.com/collections/wat ... hzEALw_wcB
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Stuart1 »

I think that the sw200 movement does not lend itself well to decoration, mainly due to size. The decorated versions that I have seen always seem to be trying too hard. The Omega 8806 is 4mm larger and I feel takes the decoration better and is a bit prettier to look at. Thus, I would say have a closed caseback and spend the money elsewhere.
Case is a bit trickier. Part of it would be the height, size and WR ratio. My partner has a Zenith Elite Rainbow Diver which is 39mm case, 9mm height with 200 m WR. She loves it and it does not look out of place. She also has a Seiko 5 with a 42mm case.
Some of the smaller divers can look too tall. Thus I think a 41/42 size would be good for the larger version and smaller version being 39. This would follow Tudor in the black bay line but they are quite tall.I
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Amor Vincit Omnia
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

Devarika Woulf wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:11 pm My suggestions is that not too much should be changed. I'll disagree with the lot of you only because of the simple fact the Mk III is the best selling Trident yet. Pretty much everyone loves it and sees it as an improvement over the Mk II. The recent C63 Sealander built off of it as well and became CW's best launch ever! It should be small fix-ups moving forward.

………………………

That's really it. I'm sure CW knows to improve the evolution of the Trident, and I'm sure certain things will come over from the new C63 line. I'm not too fussed and I say don't completely kill what clearly works! :thumbup:
Pretty much my thinking, hence as I said above - if it ain’t broke…
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Dickchins »

Richard D wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:25 pm With all these ideas CW could adopt Bremont’s configure your Martin-Baker to build a personal version of a C60 from a selection of dials, bezels, casebacks, etc……

https://www.bremont.com/collections/wat ... hzEALw_wcB

Errrrmmmmmmm........

Can open..... worms everywhere.....!

Theres an idea id appreciate
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by JAFO »

If you really want thinner, I would be happy to hand wind a watch. There is nothing wrong at all with my c65 handwinds.

Alternatively, there is a sw300 as opposed to a sw200, which is 1mm thinner. Maybe it would increase the watch cost too much.
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by nbg »

^^^ Unfortunately a screw down crown on a regularly worn manual wind watch is a recipe for problems.

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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by JAFO »

nbg wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:18 pm ^^^ Unfortunately a screw down crown on a regularly worn manual wind watch is a recipe for problems.

Neil
I appreciate the point. As possibly a minority view, I am happy without a screw down crown, and without ever seriously testing a water resistance rating, to be honest.
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by nowttolose »

As to be expected, loads of opinions and preferences.

But, having read the thread I believe 2 clear messages have floated to the top;

1. Ditch the current logo in favour of dual flags.

2. Slimmer watch achieved with a reduced 300m depth rating.
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richtel
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by richtel »

I’ve been watching this thread with much interest. The C60, like many on here I’m sure, has been my favourite CW ever. Despite having owned several other CWs, it’s the C60s which have remained in the collection. What I’d like to see most is probably in unreachable territory, but perhaps as a possibility for a top spec C60 option.

1. Movement. The market is saturated with 2824/SW200 movements. We acknowledge the affordability and ubiquity of that movement but the watches gaining a lot of attention outside of CW are those manufacturers who have struck a relationship with groups bringing through new movements. I’m particularly thinking about Oris here and their new movement. Anti-magnetic, high performance, long PR, not necessarily COSC. I know we have the SH21 and I know we had that in the mk2, but it’s a big old beast and even in the Mk2 43mm case it meant we had a bloated case back and a resulting boat anchor of a watch. As we progress to smaller and slimmer, the SH21 in its current guise probably can’t hack it. Perhaps CW ought to be looking to other partnerships and opportunities- possibly for an über model C60.

2. Bracelet. I don’t necessarily agree with the comments about screw links. The pin & collar system is perfectly simple with the right tools and a bit of dexterity and you never ever have to worry about screws becoming loose, loctite etc. While I acknowledge that the current bracelet is brilliant-one of the best I own in the company of Omega and Tudor, especially now we have half (2/3) links, if there's one innovation I would look to, it might be activation of the quick-adjust without needing to remove the bracelet- being able to press the ‘button’ externally rather than remove and use your fingernail.

3. Rubber straps. Totally acknowledge the goodness in the hybrid and tide straps. A fitted rubber strap curved fitting to the lugs would be brilliant (especially if QR!) - acknowledging the burden that adds to inventory.

4. Polish. I love the all-brushed bracelet. I’m less keen on the glossy dial. With the anti-reflective sapphire you see any greasy smudge marks instantly. The ombré is great, but I’d love to see a bit of texture back. Similarly the glossy ceramic bezel insert shows every mark.
Rich

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