NPD T4 project

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gaf1958
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by gaf1958 »

I rather like the MkIII Trident, however sone things could be improved and/or changed.

Number 1 for me would be a 300m WR model, that’s both slimmer, has a ceramic bezel and has an automatic movement. This can presumably be achieved quite easily with a slimline case back (no sapphire case back for this one please). In other words, an entry level model that’s not stripped of everything that makes the Trident desirable. The 600m model can have a sapphire case back, COSC movements, or even better - use Sellita’s version of the ETA 2892 which is probably slim enough to use a similarly slim case back as the 300m model, just with either sapphire as an option or better engraving than the 300 has (much like the difference between the existing quartz and automatics currently have).

Screwed links in the bracelet would be nice, but I’ve resized so many bracelets over the years that it’s not a big issue for me, but I can see that it would help make life easier for many. If they do it, single sided screws please…. don’t make us fiddle with two screwdrivers.

One thing that I think would improve the look is to introduce narrower (but still ceramic) bezels across the range. Removing width from the inside edge of the bezel would allow larger diameter dials and crystals to be fitted into each case size - it’s something that is both retro and modern in appearance.
It could be done at a reduced cost by simply removing 1mm from the inside edge (2mm inside diameter increase), allowing the use of the 40mm dial and crystal in the 38mm model and the 42mm dial and crystal in the 40. The 42mm would require a new dial and crystal, but they’re changing things anyway….
It would require modification to the case to allow the larger dials to fit and to mount the larger crystal, but I think it would really streamline the look. The C60 has quite a chunky bezel, but a small dial; this could really improve the balance. Of course, 1mm is just an example, they could easily go with 2mm or even 3… as there’s plenty of room there to get a better balance of dial size, bezel size for any given size.

I wouldn’t really touch the case other than that; it’s a lovely design that manages to look slimmer than it is; yet the changes I’ve suggested would make it wear like it looks - something even better in my book.


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Amor Vincit Omnia
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

This has been a really interesting thread so far, and it’s great to read such focused responses. As it is specifically about a potential new Trident C60, I’ll just focus on that.

The C60 is a dive watch. That used to be a term for a professional *tool* watch. For most of us (the non-divers) I’d venture to suggest that we are looking at a style rather more than a function. The so-called *desk* or *dress* diver. There are plenty of people I know who have collections of dive watches and don’t get any of them wet. Form over function.

I like a nice watch with reasonable WR so that I don’t need to worry about getting it wet if I jump in a hotel pool or bob around in the sea on holiday. However, it seems to me that for the average non-diver like myself something like the C63 range fits the bill rather better. I prefer the look. Unless the smaller size and lack of timing bezel is an issue for you.

The idea of having two different standards, 300 m and 600 m, does seem to make sense. After all, there are plenty of people for whom the look is important but the higher rating unnecessary.

After that it’s a question of what floats your personal boat (or sinks your diving bell). I’ve never had a Mk 3 Trident, though I’ve handled them. One of the nicest dive watches I have seen. So I’d counsel against the notion of change for the sake of change. But I’m not really a dive watch sort of bloke, so I’ll shut up! :D

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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Blackdog »

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:16 am The idea of having two different standards, 300 m and 600 m, does seem to make sense. After all, there are plenty of people for whom the look is important but the higher rating unnecessary.
I'm not so sure it is a great idea. Let's face it, nobody needs 600m WR. The record for the deepest dive with scuba equipment is 330m or thereabouts. In reality, anything above 200m is just for bragging rights.

The increase from 300 to 600m on the Trident was a way to show technical achievement. Bringing it down to 300m would be a mistake IMO. That is why I suggested to go for 300m and a thinner overall watch for the C60 GMT line only, and keep the divers at 600m.

On a different note, more tapering on the bracelet would also be nice. At least on the 38/40mm models. It could go from 20 to 16mm on those, with a narrower clasp.

I also found interesting the idea to go for the Sellita SW300/ETA2892 for the COSC three handers. It is a more refined movement and I doubt the cost diffrerential will be significant.
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

Blackdog wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:53 am
I'm not so sure it is a great idea. Let's face it, nobody needs 600m WR.
This is where I end up out of my depth, if you’ll excuse the pun. I will leave that argument to the people to whom it matters; as long as they tell me I can splash around in a hotel pool or the sea while wearing my watch I’ll be happy.

Of course, bottom line is that this is a forum for watch collectors and enthusiasts. It has long since ceased to focus on what people actually NEED. :D
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by H0rati0 »

gaf1958 wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 3:55 am

Screwed links in the bracelet would be nice, but I’ve resized so many bracelets over the years that it’s not a big issue for me, but I can see that it would help make life easier for many. If they do it, single sided screws please…. don’t make us fiddle with two screwdrivers.
single sided screws, yay! :thumbup:
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Richard D »

I have found the thread a fascinating read and in my mind I’m beginning to predict what the project may deliver based on what CW has historically done and on the ideas formed here. It’s going to be an interesting journey to follow.
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Toph »

The mk3 case is fantastic, and not much I’d fault and that is why I have 3; BUT talking about enhancements.

Twin flags at 12. The name at 9 is much better than at 12, currently.
Slightly thinner on 42mm and 40mm models
40mm with 47mm lug to lugs. I like 40mm. But the lug to lug is just a fraction too short I think.
Sapphire and coloured bezel options . ( think vintage gmt style)
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by missF »

There’s a lot of support for twin flags at twelve o’clock. I agree that now might be a good time to make the change. However, I also think it’s worth remembering that we who are in favour of the change are forum members who have known the company for a long time, have seen the logos come and go, and understand the significance of the twin flags. CW may have other thoughts about what their brand recognition is like amongst their non forum customers... I’m sure there have been plenty of discussions at CW towers about when is the right time - I’ll be interested to see what pans out!
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by ctafield »

My two penneth. I’ve been away from the forum for ages (mostly as a way of saving money 😂) but kept an eye on CW designs. The last few interactions didn’t really do much for me, but the current design really hits the spot. So much so I’ve ordered a C60 and a C60 GMT. I may be biased about the branding at the top, being called Christopher though 😉
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by stefs »

Can I have another go please/ :D following an incoming from one of our inmates..
Sandwich dial please
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by DEV.Woulf »

My suggestions is that not too much should be changed. I'll disagree with the lot of you only because of the simple fact the Mk III is the best selling Trident yet. Pretty much everyone loves it and sees it as an improvement over the Mk II. The recent C63 Sealander built off of it as well and became CW's best launch ever! It should be small fix-ups moving forward. Now, with that said...


.........................................++
............................................................CHRISTOPHER
.................................................................WARD


1. Look up ^^^. This should be the new logo at 12 to match the date at 6. Finally bring in the Twin Flags with the branding. MAKE THE FLAGS APPLIED. This is very important because it will look so good! Make the Christopher Ward styled in whatever way works but THE FONT MUST BE CHANGED! The font CW is using right now looks SO uninspiried and tiny. It doesn't exude class. My idea for the logo will. Please CW at-least give it a try in photoshop. It will look great! :D

2. I would freshen up the hour markers somewhat. I think they are nice quality but lack personailty. 3 6 9 should be different than the rest like other companies do. It's a bit drab the way it is now looking all samey-samey. I'm not sure which markers could work, but I'm sure people here could play around with photoshop. :-k

3. Put some effort on the bracelet's finishing. A little polish here and there will not hurt it! To me the all brushed look just seems lifeless next to the pretty light-catcher case. Make the bracelet match the case so it's seamless. :wave:

That's really it. I'm sure CW knows to improve the evolution of the Trident, and I'm sure certain things will come over from the new C63 line. I'm not too fussed and I say don't completely kill what clearly works! :thumbup:
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Squalus »

I would like to suggest hollow lugs (C7 similar) for LE T4s.
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by johncolescarr »

As MissF has said, less bling. The polished dial and shiny bezel are very pre-COVID opulence, feels out of step with the times and is why the mk3 didn’t stay in my collection, I’d like to see more texture, even if this is not waves on the dial.
Hand set needs to be tweaked to make it less aggressive, the pin sharp finish of the handset was always a bit intimidating for me.

Now for the tiny details: make the clasp adjustable 15-20mm, making fitting a breeze and also act like a diver extension. Regulate the movement so the accuracy experience out of the box walks all over other brands. Make the crown just that touch longer so it’s as joyful to operate as the mk2 was.

Finally push the environmental credentials. Make commitments to the blue marine foundation the standard, have no plastic in the packaging. Sustainably sourced materials, LCAs on the manufacture process, ensure all of the supply chain labour is fairly paid. Put a tide strap in every box.
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Kip »

I have been advised that the CW NPD is watching this topic with great interest!!

The Admin Team will be summarizing each part of the watch prior to forwarding to the CW NPD Team. It will be broken down as follows.

Case
Case Back
Bezel
Crystal
Movement
Dial/hands
Logo/Twin Flag device
Bracelet/straps
Misc./comments

I would like to try keying in on one segment at a time here.

After reviewing the suggestions so far, I will try to summarize the case/case back suggestions. I will split out the case/caseback comments later.

Case/ Case back

It would seem that most would like to simply retain the current Lightcatcher case style. Though some would prefer fewer polished surfaces.

Most would like to see a thinner case (currently at 13.4 for the 42 mm size). If that height reduction could be reduced to 12mm that would be great.

Most understand that this may reduce the ATM rating from 60 atm to 30 atm and a good many are willing to accept that. Especially if current price points could be retained.

The majority feel that even though 60 atm is better than most makers, despite marketing, it is unnecessary for the majority and 30 atm is more than sufficient for daily use.

To help achieve a thinner case, possibly an exhibition case back could be utilized or at least an available option.

If there is a reduction in ATM to achieve a thinner case, then possibly making 2 versions (30 and 60) should be considered. Perhaps an upscale model that might feature the current solid case back and even a titanium case has been suggested.

Seems to be a mixed bag regarding case sizes. Some would like to see the current 38,40 and 42mm sizes retained. Other have suggested a change to only a 39 and 41mm size featuring a 20mm strap size.

The case back suggestions (also seemingly a split decision) have been limited to the use of an exhibition case back while others vote for retaining the solid case back. Depend on final choices an exhibition case back would like to be seen as an available option.

A couple have mentioned removing CW from the dial and placing on the case back.

The above being said, there are some against reducing the atm rating or offering both 30 and 60 atm models or offering an exhibition case back in a diver.

Did I miss anything?

Lets focus the discussion on these case aspects for now and then I will summarize the others and we can do those. However, do not let the focus dissuade anyone from making further comments. I will pick those up as we move along.
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Richard D »

^^^^ Interesting exercise.
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