NPD T4 project

Discuss Christopher Ward watches
JAFO
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by JAFO »

@ajax87
Now I can see both your examples, I don't mind either. I thought I would prefer the single line but now I am not so sure. Your first example is the same as the new C63, I think. It also resembles the chronograph example of @monkeymax. It's a layout we are familiar with, it avoids changing again, and neither of those examples will frighten the children or the horses. :thumbup:
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Stuart1 »

I think that the two line and logo looks best. However, I still think that just the logo would be the way to go.
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by monkeymax »

rkovars wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:58 pm
Bahnstormer_vRS wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:11 am ^^^^ Twin flags and logo at 12 is too much.

Has to be one or the other, not both.

Guy



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It looks cramped because it is too close to the top index. I think if it was all moved down 1 line it would not looked cramped at all. He did it that way so that he could use the original CW text placement.
Thanks, and yes exactly this. I had used the Abyss for the sapphire dial so just coloured the text already there. For the logo only image I used the smoke sapphire dial. To combine I moved the logo up by itself and coloured the text just to save time. Ideally both would drop down and be more centred but doing that properly with a translucent dial would take time I didn't have.

Saying that, I did that quickly as a mock up and it does look better with it all lowered down but to me the combination of logo, Christopher, then Ward looks weird. It's got a diamond sort of shape. Putting the logo under the name makes a more pleasing shape but not when placed on the dial.

So my final conclusion was that text and logo is too much together IMO. Less is more. :)

Though I suspect yet another logo placement discussion wasn't what CW were interested in, and for my part, not my intended point either!
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Kip »

This topic is now closed.....at least for now.

I will be be revising the summaries and forwarding to CW.

Should there be any further developments on this subject, I will advise.

Thanks to all for your participation.
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by Kip »

Below is the summary I have forwarded to CW and the NPD team.

I have also sent them a spreadsheet that I used to track all comments along with how many liked and/or disliked certain suggestions. Suggestions that did not fit into a multiple were also included. Unfortunately it is not practical to post the spreadsheet.

Initial reaction to the summary and spreadsheet were positive from CW.

They want to thank all those that participated in the discussions as do I and the Admin Team.

I will advise of any further developments.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

NPD T4 Summary from CW Forum Members

September 25, 2021

The following information is a summary from forum members here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=57527

There is also an Excel spreadsheet (attached) that shows the number of comments related to each item as well as who participated in discussions.

NPD T4 Summaries

These are not necessarily all preferences - Just specific mentions

Mk4 should be a refinement of the design, something that takes what’s existing and makes it better.

Please note that there are a few photoshops by forum members on pages 10 thru 12


Case/ Case back
It would seem that most would like to simply retain the current Lightcatcher case style. Though some would prefer fewer polished surfaces.
Most would like to see a thinner case (currently at 13.4 for the 42 mm size). If that height reduction could be reduced to 12mm that would be great.

Most understand that this may reduce the ATM rating from 60 atm to 30 atm and a good many are willing to accept that. Especially if current price points could be retained.

The majority feel that even though 60 atm is better than most makers, despite marketing, it is unnecessary for the majority and 30 atm is more than sufficient for daily use.

To help achieve a thinner case, possibly an exhibition case back could be utilized or at least an available option. Better if 60atm can be retained.
If there is a reduction in ATM to achieve a thinner case, then possibly making 2 versions (30 and 60) should be considered. Perhaps an upscale model that might feature the current solid case back and even a titanium case has been suggested.

Seems to be a mixed bag regarding case sizes. Some would like to see the current 38,40 and 42mm sizes retained. Other have suggested a change to only a 39 and 41mm size featuring a 20mm strap size.

The case back suggestions (also seemingly a split decision) have been limited to the use of an exhibition case back while others vote for retaining the solid case back. Depend on final choices an exhibition case back would like to be seen as an available option.

A couple have mentioned removing CW from the dial and placing on the case back.

The above being said, there are some against reducing the atm rating or offering both 30 and 60 atm models or offering an exhibition case back in a diver.

Having hollow lugs like the C7’s had was also mentioned to reduce weight.
As far as the crown is concerned: it was mentioned to enlarge the crown more like the MKII version but with smoother edges as a few have mentioned that the crown edges are too sharp.

If an applied device is to happen one mentioned returning “CW” to the crown.

Possibly more related to the movement, but improved magnetism protection has also been requested.


Crystal
Due to the lack of crystal mentions it would seem that most are very satisfied with the current version.

Some would like to see improved AR coatings or the use of a “Museum Grade” crystal to enhance clarity.

One comment has suggested a narrower inside edge of the bezel to allow larger dials and crystals without enlarging overall case size. The thinking being a more streamlined appearance and enhanced visibility in smaller sizes.

Bezel Summary
There seems to be little question that retaining the ceramic bezel is the way to go. However, a slightly narrow bezel seems to be favored, although not unanimously.

There is a very strong feeling that the use of the #tide 2 part bezel would enhance the looks along with changing the ceramic to a matte finish.

Several have suggested the use of a bidirectional bezel in the standard model, but certainly to be continued with GMT versions. Not sure how practical that is in a proper diver. Perhaps if 2 versions then a bi and uni bezel could be offered. There was one suggestion of a 12 hour bi directional bezel.

There was also mention of bringing back the “pip” at 12.

Another common theme was having a factory option of different bezel color “inserts” available either as a service item or user replacement.

Possibly offer a bezel kit containing required items for insert change or for a complete bezel exchange.

Use of different colored lumes on bezel and count down area was also mentioned.

Most definitely retain the use of lumed bezels.

As good as the current bezel may be, tighter tolerances have also been recommended. Less play all around is required.

Movement Summary
Quite a variety of comments around the movement with the only consensus seemingly to have a longer power reserve.

While it goes against the theme of a thinner overall design, the use of an in house movement is also suggested.
Improving the overall accuracy would be a plus, without moving into a COSC movement. This would suggest a Sellita SW300 or ETA 2892 type movement which are also slightly thinner.

If an exhibition case back is used it is suggested that a decorated movement/rotor be utilized. The suggestion of a Trident shaped rotor was also endorsed. Not sure this is practical from an engineering perspective, but a twin flags design with a trident imprint on the rotor might work.

A few suggested the use of a hand wound movement.

There were a couple who endorsed using a COSC movement as standard.

Also mentioned was that two movements should be retained, but instead of quartz for the 300m version and SW200 for the 600m model, It was suggested that the entry level 300m version uses the SW200 and the 600m version uses the thinner SW300 (ETA 2882 equivalent) to maintain a degree of difference.

Dial/ hands Summary
As one would expect this was probably the area for the most suggestions.

Although not without some dissent, the return to a textured dial was heavily favored. Most seemed to prefer the return of the wave dial, or something similar as this was long associated with the Trident. The use of a fully lumed dial or a full lumed ceramic dial was also a popular suggestion.

Other suggestions were a Sunray dial or a matte finish dial or possibly a sandwich type dial.

Other dial colors as well as those in more muted tones were also recommended as part of the permanent line.

The use of the date at 6 was also heavily favored as was having a date wheel always color matched. An altimeter style was suggested as well.
Several were suggesting a non-date version be offered.

If an SH21 gets used, then PR indicator is favored.

Updated markers/indices are also suggested while some want numbers at 3,6,9,12 depending on date location, while others want markers only.


A couple suggested removing Christopher Ward from the dial completely if the twin flags device is utilized at 12. We will summarize that more in
the Logo/Twin Flag device summary.

The hands of the C60 MKIII have been criticized as too generic. The Trident second hand is the exception here as most would like to keep that.

Some would like to have a color coordinated second hand or color tipped trident hand.

Several would like to see a return to the hands of the prior generations of C60’s while some would like to see subtle alterations to the MKIII hands such as, remove or shorten the overhanging tails. A wider base to the hour hand was also suggested. Few have suggested keeping the current hand choice.

Other suggestions included gun metal-colored hands and indices or black hands on a white dials.

Logo/Twin flag device
The overwhelming suggestion here is to use the twin flags at the 12 position. This could be applied and lumed (the top suggestion), or at least faceted to match the indices. Both would be superb. Even a laser engraved device would be better than not having the device at 12.

Certainly, some would prefer the CW logo at 12 at the very least. Having both was suggested if the CW font could be changed or made smaller under the device.

CW underneath twin flag logo 'Trident' in a contrasting color was also suggested.

Removal of the CW wordmark was suggested if it could be moved/engraved on the caseback.

Bracelet/straps
While this is a brainstorming session regarding the C60 T4, bracelet and strap improvements was an active topic.

The bracelet first.

Again, but not without dissent, screwed links seem to be a very popular request provided it is a single screw so only one screwdriver is required.

Making a half link standard is also heavily favored as this would allow almost limitless adjustment in combo with the clasp micro adjustments.

It has been suggested that the clasp micro adjustment be redesigned so it can be made without removing the watch from the wrist. Along with this, a diver extension is also suggested or expand the clasp adjustment to act as one.

Other suggestions include female end links for smoother fit and a return to polished center inks for a richer look and better case match. Of course, this would depend on if any changes are made to the case finish.

Straps
Fully integrated and adjustable rubber straps with a deployant clasp and extension (think original C6) was a popular suggestion. Availability of a standard clasp was also suggested.

The suggestion of using all fitted straps was also suggested, although if using tide straps, I think this would be difficult.

It has also been suggested that bracelet and choice of strap be included as a standard.

Perhaps revisiting this old (2012) bracelet/clasp proposal might solve many issues. This had micro adjustments with a divers extension.

These users thanked the author Kip for the post:
DEV.Woulf
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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by DEV.Woulf »

Seems really good, Kip! I'm pretty excited to see how CW uses some of our ideas. :thumbup:
Christopher Ward | LORIER | MONTA | SEIKO

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Re: NPD T4 project

Post by H0rati0 »

That's a top job Kip, considering what became a pretty big collection of suggestions. I too will be interested to see what emerges in due course. Many thanks!
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