New SH21 C63 Snow Leopard and BMF for Q2

Noush · Post by **Noush** » Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:52 am

I'm very confident that Malcolm (@mvlow) has it exactly right as to what these models will be and LE for sure.

That said: I'd be amazed at the idea that the existing SH21 fits in a 39mm C63 case. We've not seen it in anything smaller than a 41mm C65 in the past.
And I'm on the same page as Lindsey. I want a watch called The Snow Leopard! Bank account, less certain.....won't be a budget model.

Amor Vincit Omnia · Post by **Amor Vincit Omnia** » Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:50 am

Noush wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:52 am We've not seen it in anything smaller than a 41mm C65 in the past.

C9 5-day Small Second (40mm)

Noush · Post by **Noush** » Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:12 am

^^^^^
I just knew someone would find some thing smaller. But I hadn't....relative newbie as I am.
Didn't let me down Steve! And of course now I spy your own review of same. Doh!
Still bigger than a C63.

Just can't see it happening. Prove me wrong CW!

tikkathree · Post by **tikkathree** » Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:49 am

monkeymax wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2023 11:29 pm I instantly thought BMF may be a Bamford collaboration? (CW seem to be into collabs now)

I don't claim this thought to have been instant but if we're all playing guessing games, maybe a Brompton collab? What else can we create with a BMF acronym between now and the launch preview zoom when we'll all be sworn to absolute secrecy?

Reversing the smaller case trend we might have the Big Mother F******?

Another "missing design" Build More Fleigers"?

A possible collab with the beer production trade "Brewing Makes Food"?

Gotta go now, bet you're relieved

Mikkei4 · Post by **Mikkei4** » Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:20 pm

I think @mvlow and @alex87 have the right answers for these 2 watches - thank you.

I'll look out for these with interest being the last usage of the SH21 Mk1 because I don't have a SH21 watch. I had a NN C65 LE on order from a CW sale a year or so ago but cancelled it before despatch as it seemed to me that this movement has more than average failures requiring returns to CW for repair.

Is that a fair assessment or do I have it very wrong?

JAFO · Post by **JAFO** » Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:32 pm

Noush wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:52 am I'm very confident that Malcolm (@mvlow) has it exactly right as to what these models will be and LE for sure.

That said: I'd be amazed at the idea that the existing SH21 fits in a 39mm C63 case. We've not seen it in anything smaller than a 41mm C65 in the past.
And I'm on the same page as Lindsey. I want a watch called The Snow Leopard! Bank account, less certain.....won't be a budget model.

I'm repeating myself, but if this is the last of the SH21s than a solid white gold case with an ounce of gold and named the snow leopard (also called the ounce) and a COSC badge for about £8 to £10k would surely build on the reputation of the BC, and sell our very quickly.

rkovars · Post by **rkovars** » Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:13 pm

Noush wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:12 am ^^^^^
I just knew someone would find some thing smaller. But I hadn't....relative newbie as I am.
Didn't let me down Steve! And of course now I spy your own review of same. Doh!
Still bigger than a C63. Just can't see it happening. Prove me wrong CW!

The C63 Elite is 40mm. The C63 Colchester is 41mm.

biggus_richus · Post by **biggus_richus** » Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:42 pm

Mikkei4 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:20 pm I think @mvlow and @alex87 have the right answers for these 2 watches - thank you.

I'll look out for these with interest being the last usage of the SH21 Mk1 because I don't have a SH21 watch. I had a NN C65 LE on order from a CW sale a year or so ago but cancelled it before despatch as it seemed to me that this movement has more than average failures requiring returns to CW for repair.

Is that a fair assessment or do I have it very wrong?

CW claim that it's the most reliable movement they use. I realise that doesn't entirely answer your question.

Mikkei4 · Post by **Mikkei4** » Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:17 pm

biggus_richus wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:42 pm
Mikkei4 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:20 pm I think @mvlow and @alex87 have the right answers for these 2 watches - thank you.

I'll look out for these with interest being the last usage of the SH21 Mk1 because I don't have a SH21 watch. I had a NN C65 LE on order from a CW sale a year or so ago but cancelled it before despatch as it seemed to me that this movement has more than average failures requiring returns to CW for repair.

Is that a fair assessment or do I have it very wrong?
CW claim that it's the most reliable movement they use. I realise that doesn't entirely answer your question.

Thanks.
I'm not sure @RichM would agree with CW on that having needed 2 repairs on his in the 3 years (?) that he's owned it. I have it in my head that I've read of others having issues but maybe I'm wrong or they've multiplied in my head due to it being that movement, hence my question in case I'm doing the SH21 a mis-service.

Lawrence · Post by **Lawrence** » Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:21 pm

Snow Leopards powered by the SH21

BobMunro · Post by **BobMunro** » Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:41 pm

Mikkei4 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:20 pm I think @mvlow and @alex87 have the right answers for these 2 watches - thank you.

I'll look out for these with interest being the last usage of the SH21 Mk1 because I don't have a SH21 watch. I had a NN C65 LE on order from a CW sale a year or so ago but cancelled it before despatch as it seemed to me that this movement has more than average failures requiring returns to CW for repair.

Is that a fair assessment or do I have it very wrong?

I have had a C9 Harrison 5-Day, ordered when they were released in 2014, and it has never missed a beat. I don't wear it that often now but when I do it is good for a couple of seconds a day.

Just my personal experience for what it's worth, but I appreciate that the plural of anecdote isn't data

iain · Post by **iain** » Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:51 pm

Mikkei4 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:17 pm
biggus_richus wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:42 pm
Mikkei4 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:20 pm I think @mvlow and @alex87 have the right answers for these 2 watches - thank you.

I'll look out for these with interest being the last usage of the SH21 Mk1 because I don't have a SH21 watch. I had a NN C65 LE on order from a CW sale a year or so ago but cancelled it before despatch as it seemed to me that this movement has more than average failures requiring returns to CW for repair.

Is that a fair assessment or do I have it very wrong?
CW claim that it's the most reliable movement they use. I realise that doesn't entirely answer your question.
Thanks.
I'm not sure @RichM would agree with CW on that having needed 2 repairs on his in the 3 years (?) that he's owned it. I have it in my head that I've read of others having issues but maybe I'm wrong or they've multiplied in my head due to it being that movement, hence my question in case I'm doing the SH21 a mis-service.

You can make statistics read any way you want. For example let’s say you sell 10 of product A and 100 of product B

Then one of product A goes wrong and 5 of product B develops a fault.

You’ve had more failures with product B than product A. But product A has a 10% failure rate, whereas product B is only 5%.

Which is the most reliable? You could claim either depending on how you present the data.

This is why you always need the data behind any claim before making any assumptions, however that is not always possible.

Again this hasn’t answered you question Mick.

Mikkei4 · Post by **Mikkei4** » Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:54 pm

^^ Thanks to Iain, BobMunro and biggus_richus for the responses. I take onboard and appreciate what each of you have written as I didn't want to make assumptions based on what I thought I had read.

As before I look forward to these 2 watch releases potentially well timed for a BIG date event.

biggus_richus · Post by **biggus_richus** » Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:08 pm

iain wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:51 pm
You can make statistics read any way you want. For example let’s say you sell 10 of product A and 100 of product B

Then one of product A goes wrong and 5 of product B develops a fault.

You’ve had more failures with product B than product A. But product A has a 10% failure rate, whereas product B is only 5%.

Which is the most reliable? You could claim either depending on how you present the data.

This is why you always need the data behind any claim before making any assumptions, however that is not always possible.

Again this hasn’t answered you question Mick.

No argument with any of this, I should probably have juxtaposed CW’s claim of SH21 reliability with the prevalence of SW-200 spinning rotor complaints!

RichM · Post by **RichM** » Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:28 pm

Mikkei4 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:17 pm
biggus_richus wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:42 pm
Mikkei4 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:20 pm I think @mvlow and @alex87 have the right answers for these 2 watches - thank you.

I'll look out for these with interest being the last usage of the SH21 Mk1 because I don't have a SH21 watch. I had a NN C65 LE on order from a CW sale a year or so ago but cancelled it before despatch as it seemed to me that this movement has more than average failures requiring returns to CW for repair.

Is that a fair assessment or do I have it very wrong?
CW claim that it's the most reliable movement they use. I realise that doesn't entirely answer your question.
Thanks.
I'm not sure @RichM would agree with CW on that having needed 2 repairs on his in the 3 years (?) that he's owned it. I have it in my head that I've read of others having issues but maybe I'm wrong or they've multiplied in my head due to it being that movement, hence my question in case I'm doing the SH21 a mis-service.

2 repairs in *2* years! Easily my most unreliable watch but repaired under warranty both times and I still love it despite the question over its performance.

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