Thanks for the update.

I hope that the changes will bring more potential orders than the original choice of the blue. The change to a black dial is maybe what many people had in their thoughts as the most likely (or popular) change choice although I do understand what @akirk is saying re. the blue. That's often the issue with LE or bespoke designs, i.e. getting the balance of specifications to suit as many people as possible.

I think the sunray dial will make the black look much better than the render. TBH I didn't think CW would support a black dial as it brings it very close to the Explorer design but Farer seems to have managed it with their Black Velvet watch albeit in 36mm.

Of course the name had to change when the dial colour changed and "Adventurer" is (IMO) Ok but it doesn't have the same mystical/magical context as "Atlantis". Probably not likely to change now but I think something like "Avalon" would have continued the feel of "Atlantis" maybe.

Well done all involved and I'm looking forward to more details.

Mikkei4 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 6:28 pm Probably not likely to change now but I think something like "Avalon" would have continued the feel of "Atlantis" maybe.

It’s almost begging a series…Lyonesse, Camelot…

Mikkei4 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 6:28 pm ...I think something like "Avalon" would have continued the feel of "Atlantis" maybe...

Toyota may not be happy about that choice even if the Avalon has been discontinued.

nycWATCHnerd wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 7:32 pm

Mikkei4 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 6:28 pm ...I think something like "Avalon" would have continued the feel of "Atlantis" maybe...

Toyota may not be happy about that choice even if the Avalon has been discontinued.

I'm not entirely sure that a place name of ancient legend, could ever be claimed as owned in any fashion, although Morgan might have something to say about it.

@MarkingTime
Very good!

MarkingTime wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 8:01 pm

nycWATCHnerd wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 7:32 pm

Mikkei4 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 6:28 pm ...I think something like "Avalon" would have continued the feel of "Atlantis" maybe...

Toyota may not be happy about that choice even if the Avalon has been discontinued.

I'm not entirely sure that a place name of ancient legend, could ever be claimed as owned in any fashion, although Morgan might have something to say about it.

It is trademarked as expected and recently renewed. It was originally trademarked by Avalon Tire Co. in the 1970s but I believe they no longer exist and/or Toyota's corporate lawyers were able to make a case that they should own it as of 1995.

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 7:31 pm It’s almost begging a series…Lyonesse, Camelot…

Brigadoon….

nycWATCHnerd wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 12:51 am

MarkingTime wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 8:01 pm

nycWATCHnerd wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 7:32 pm
Toyota may not be happy about that choice even if the Avalon has been discontinued.

I'm not entirely sure that a place name of ancient legend, could ever be claimed as owned in any fashion, although Morgan might have something to say about it.

It is trademarked as expected and recently renewed. It was originally trademarked by Avalon Tire Co. in the 1970s but I believe they no longer exist and/or Toyota's corporate lawyers were able to make a case that they should own it as of 1995.

Toyota.JPG

I'm not so sure that would be the case in the UK, where "Avalon" is evidenced in texts going back to the 1100's. I very much doubt that anyone involved in the trademark process in this case in the US, has any idea what Avalon is, or what its origins are.

Perhaps we need someone with knowledge in the area of trademarks to comment!

In the meantime a view from a random bloke on the internet (me )…

Perhaps it is possible for more than one company to register the same trademark?

Perhaps that would be the case if the two companies seeking to register a trademark operate in totally different industry sectors, making totally different products?

After all the principal regarding trademark protection is to prevent confusion in the marketplace…

Neil

nbg wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 8:29 am Perhaps that would be the case if the two companies seeking to register a trademark operate in totally different industry sectors, making totally different products?

Purely hypothetically of course: a watch company and a car company, for instance?

trademarks are not generic - they are per category and per territory
In the UK category 14 is Jewellery and watches, even then you have to specify the detail within that category, so:

- Martin James Whitehouse has it registered for Silver bullion; Gold bullion, Coins and Bars.
- BHRS Group have it for: Wall clocks, desk clocks, LCD clocks, LED clocks, alarm clocks. (and a whole load of heaters in class 11)

No-one has it registered for wristwatches in the UK.

Note - it is tricky to register unless you actually produce or can show you are about to produce products... A trademark is a Mark of Trade - i.e. you are protecting that you are trading under that Mark - if you don't trade under that Mark then it can be overturned - you can't just register it and sit on it - though to be fair big corporations can because they can easily show development or argue for long development cycles - but the principle is the same...

the other part of trademarks is that it is about registering what the public recognise - so the question will be asked as to whether the mythical man on the Clapham omnibus would recognise that Mark as relating to your trade... this can lead to interesting situations such as:
- a company registering a trademark, but not using it / using it very sparingly and another company then not registering it but using it - if that second company (which arguably has no right to the trademark) becomes a household name or well known - they can argue that the trademark should belong to them
- a small company with a strong local presence might be able to show that they can use a trademark because of historical use and local brand - this has often been a strong defence especially against some corporate bullies who try and shut them down - so MacDonalds went after anyone with that name in a business at one point - but some people running a corner shop under their own name of macdonald were able to fight it...

anyway, doesn't appear to be a block on Avalon being used for a wristwatch in the UK - but to sell it under the same name abroad, equivalent checks would need to be made...

^^^ In short, you need to avalon hard look at the rules before using an already registered name?

Back to the topic though, I think the new black dial looks great and I think should hopefully broaden the interest. Best of luck with it.

^^^ Somehow I suspect that the question might be academic. It’s a long time since we saw the bucolic or mystical (Malvern, Belisama). I don’t see a return to Arthurian legend waiting in the wings, but never say never.

timepieces_and_bags wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 11:25 am ^^^ In short, you need to avalon hard look at the rules before using an already registered name?

Unless someone Tor up the rule book?

Wait…

The Avalon could well become a Grail.

^^^ That seems a worthy idea…

Neil