My C65 Trident GMT isn't waterproof!

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Re: My C65 Trident GMT isn't waterproof!

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

UNIONmagazine wrote:
Mikkei4 wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:54 pm Thanks to the OP and A1soknownas for their comments and perspective of when and how they became aware of and then posted on the Forum.

I could be wrong here (as I am a bit confused) but it looks to me that there's some misunderstanding between CW CS staff and the OP on what each are expecting to be done.

What did UNIONmagazine originally ask for ? a replacement/exchange due to the short length of time (how many months prior was it actually purchased?) he had the watch when the fault happened? Or a repair under warranty?

If a replacement/exchange was requested then seems the CW staff member has gone into "can't do that as it's obvious it's been worn as can be seen from the numerous scratches" but has then not considered or seen that there is an actual quality and specification fault to be fixed under warranty and so has quoted for a repair outside of warranty cover.

If I was sitting in a managerial position in CW CS I'd take a view of retaining the customer rather than playing hardball and send a new watch unit on the original bracelet back to UNIONmagazine with an appropriately worded letter stating why they've done this, e.g. goodwill or whatever they want to say, as obviously there has been water ingress into a watch that has a stated sufficient WR to cope with the depth of water where it was used.

As I've said before better to speak to (not email) somebody to confirm what has been understood as the fault and take it on from there.
Hi, I originally asked for a replacement. I can genuinely say that given the same budget again, I would (have) bought the same watch. It's a beautiful thing. However, my view of the company has taken a tumble over the past week and I'm not so sure my adoration for their brand has persevered.
Thanks for the clarification. Image

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Re: My C65 Trident GMT isn't waterproof!

Post by Mikkei4 »

UNIONmagazine wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:16 pm
Mikkei4 wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:03 pm
UNIONmagazine wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:42 pm

With respect I completely disagree. A £1000 diver's watch advertised to be water resisitant up to 150metres leaking water the first time it touches water is unacceptable.
How many months is "as few months"? How old was the watch when the water ingress occurred? A few months to me is 3months and if this is so then at CW I would have done as I have said in my previous post. Longer than 3 months it should be fixed under warranty.
The watch was 7 months old when the water damage occured.
To me that is several months and while I might have pushed my luck and asked for a replacement/exchange initially i would have expected CW to suggest a repair under warranty. However what's the likely amount of unseen damage if salt water has entered into the movement itself due to the water ingress? Again probably better and easier for CW to provide a replacement watch unit on the original bracelet to pacify and satisfy a customer than get involved in a lengthy repair that would be costly in terms of labour.
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Re: My C65 Trident GMT isn't waterproof!

Post by A1soknownas »

Mikkei4 wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:07 pm
DavecUK wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:29 pm I think expecting an exchange after a few months and wearing in the sea is not reasonable. Had you had a problem with the watch, identified it, not worn it, then yes. e.g. if it was a wet day and the watch arrived with condensation in it.
So should we all dip our new CW divers watches into a bucket of water before we wear them to prove the WR ?
Doesn't condensation sometimes occur then clear without it meaning the WR is not working?
Exactly right! We shouldn't have to re-test all expected characteristics of an item upon delivery. I haven't submerged my MK3 underwater yet after 3 months but if I did and there was a fault I would expect CW and any other watch maker to either repair (quickly) or provide a replacement and an apology for the inconvenience caused.

The 60 days return policy, nor the movement guarantee has any impact upon this scenario and does not replace their obligation to address the fault that has been found.

Hopefully, this is just a misunderstanding within CS and once discussed in more detail they will proceed with the correct course of action without the buyer having to even mention Consumer Rights protection!
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Re: My C65 Trident GMT isn't waterproof!

Post by UNIONmagazine »

peterh wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:22 pm Aaaaand there is the source of the misunderstanding.

Ask them to solve the problem under warranty, rather than for a replacement.
The watch is water damaged now. Salt water too. I don't want a water damaged watch.
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Re: My C65 Trident GMT isn't waterproof!

Post by A1soknownas »

To be fair, the image of the damaged watch as your profile pic deserves a refund, replacement or round of applause :D :clap:
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Re: My C65 Trident GMT isn't waterproof!

Post by DavecUK »

UNIONmagazine wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:42 pm
DavecUK wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:29 pm I think expecting an exchange after a few months and wearing in the sea is not reasonable. Had you had a problem with the watch, identified it, not worn it, then yes. e.g. if it was a wet day and the watch arrived with condensation in it.
With respect I completely disagree. A £1000 diver's watch advertised to be water resisitant up to 150metres leaking water the first time it touches water is unacceptable.
I agree, it's not acceptable, thinking about it a few months (less than 2) isn't good. I was more thinking of money back but yes I think an exchange is something you might want.

As I read this I realised you posted that you had the watch for 7 months...so a replacement movement/dial/hands is probably more realistic unless there is a case defect, in which case the whole watch should be replaced.

I think it's very important to give clear accurate information from the off, otherwise it confuses people and the last thing you want is for CW to get a confused message. Hopefully there is nothing else that we are unaware off. The main thing is the result of a pressure test on the watch which should hopefully show a case defect..
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Re: My C65 Trident GMT isn't waterproof!

Post by UNIONmagazine »

DavecUK wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:17 pm
UNIONmagazine wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:42 pm
DavecUK wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:29 pm I think expecting an exchange after a few months and wearing in the sea is not reasonable. Had you had a problem with the watch, identified it, not worn it, then yes. e.g. if it was a wet day and the watch arrived with condensation in it.
With respect I completely disagree. A £1000 diver's watch advertised to be water resisitant up to 150metres leaking water the first time it touches water is unacceptable.
I agree, it's not acceptable, thinking about it a few months (less than 2) isn't good. I was more thinking of money back but yes I think an exchange is something you might want.

As I read this I realised you posted that you had the watch for 7 months...so a replacement movement/dial/hands is probably more realistic unless there is a case defect, in which case the whole watch should be replaced.

I think it's very important to give clear accurate information from the off, otherwise it confuses people and the last thing you want is for CW to get a confused message. Hopefully there is nothing else that we are unaware off. The main thing is the result of a pressure test on the watch which should hopefully show a case defect..
There has been no doubt regarding the facts between myself and CW. I returned the watch with the original invoice. The customer services team have yet to address how the water was able to enter the watch. Silence.
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Re: My C65 Trident GMT isn't waterproof!

Post by UNIONmagazine »

A1soknownas wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:51 pm To be fair, the image of the damaged watch as your profile pic deserves a refund, replacement or round of applause :D :clap:
LOL - It's the only picture of a CW watch that I have copyright of. Maybe I should use a picture of my cheap Russian water resistant Vostok.
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Re: My C65 Trident GMT isn't waterproof!

Post by Bungle-ator »

UNIONmagazine wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:14 pm
Bungle-ator wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:10 pm Did they send you an invoice or just tell you how much the repair would cost?

When I returned my watch to them they quoted me £360 to fix it and could I "call in with my credit card or send PayPal details". I found it a very strange request without an invoice. I asked lots of questions and was ignored for a couple of weeks before I was told it was being repaired under warranty. It's been a long slog and they've now had my watch for over 14 weeks. As an aside, I received an email with my "order" not quite a couple of weeks ago detailing parts and service costs amounting to £360, which was then zeroed. I wrongly assumed that them sending me this meant it was about to come back to me but apparently not.

I think if I were you I'd be getting in touch with them again. It sounds ridiculous for them to not fix that under warranty.
Hi, I received two emails. One informing that that that watch had two many scratches to be fixed under warranty and a second email informing of the cost of repairs.
I was hoping that you'd had a reply from a lunatic like I did. Going by the rest of the thread it looks like you're going about thing the right way, I'm sure (or hope!) that someone there will see sense.
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Re: My C65 Trident GMT isn't waterproof!

Post by UNIONmagazine »

Mikkei4 wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:23 pm
UNIONmagazine wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:16 pm
Mikkei4 wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:03 pm

How many months is "as few months"? How old was the watch when the water ingress occurred? A few months to me is 3months and if this is so then at CW I would have done as I have said in my previous post. Longer than 3 months it should be fixed under warranty.
The watch was 7 months old when the water damage occured.
To me that is several months and while I might have pushed my luck and asked for a replacement/exchange initially i would have expected CW to suggest a repair under warranty. However what's the likely amount of unseen damage if salt water has entered into the movement itself due to the water ingress? Again probably better and easier for CW to provide a replacement watch unit on the original bracelet to pacify and satisfy a customer than get involved in a lengthy repair that would be costly in terms of labour.
And it's worth mentioning that the movement had been sat soaking in salt water for 16-17 days at least. The water damage occured on the second day of a 15 day family holiday and the watch was only posted back three days after returning home due to landing on a Friday.
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Re: My C65 Trident GMT isn't waterproof!

Post by UNIONmagazine »

Bungle-ator wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:04 pm
UNIONmagazine wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:14 pm
Bungle-ator wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:10 pm Did they send you an invoice or just tell you how much the repair would cost?

When I returned my watch to them they quoted me £360 to fix it and could I "call in with my credit card or send PayPal details". I found it a very strange request without an invoice. I asked lots of questions and was ignored for a couple of weeks before I was told it was being repaired under warranty. It's been a long slog and they've now had my watch for over 14 weeks. As an aside, I received an email with my "order" not quite a couple of weeks ago detailing parts and service costs amounting to £360, which was then zeroed. I wrongly assumed that them sending me this meant it was about to come back to me but apparently not.

I think if I were you I'd be getting in touch with them again. It sounds ridiculous for them to not fix that under warranty.
Hi, I received two emails. One informing that that that watch had two many scratches to be fixed under warranty and a second email informing of the cost of repairs.
I was hoping that you'd had a reply from a lunatic like I did. Going by the rest of the thread it looks like you're going about thing the right way, I'm sure (or hope!) that someone there will see sense.
Fingers crossed that reason prevails. The problem is I do not want the watch back that has had it's internals soaking in sea water for at least two weeks.
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Re: My C65 Trident GMT isn't waterproof!

Post by DavecUK »

UNIONmagazine wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:13 pmFingers crossed that reason prevails. The problem is I do not want the watch back that has had it's internals soaking in sea water for at least two weeks.
If it were me and it's not, I would simply put a new movement in there. It cannot possibly be worth the cost of inspection, cleaning checking and repairing vs a new movement. There is potentially so much that would need replacing if it's been left for 2 weeks or more....and may or may not be running.

However, knowing common sense does not yet prevail...who knows. You should ask them when they pressure tested it before removing the case back etc.. what was the result? This is because it's a fairly good way of knowing for a fact there is a fault in the watch case seals and proving it was nothing you could have done.

They should have put it in a machine that pressurises the watch above water in a little chamber, then they dunk the watch in and see if air bubbles from the case back, crystal or crown. If it does it means high pressure air got in during the test and the case is not watertight to it's rated depth. In reality from what you say they should be able to take it to 50m and it should bubble air nicely when they place it in water.

If they didn't do that, you can ask them why they didn't if they were preparing to charge you for the repair
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Re: My C65 Trident GMT isn't waterproof!

Post by mvlow »

UNIONmagazine wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:13 pm
Fingers crossed that reason prevails. The problem is I do not want the watch back that has had it's internals soaking in sea water for at least two weeks.
As it seems there was possibly an initial misunderstanding and CS might have thought you wanted the watch replaced under 60/60, it seems you are now on the right track in explaining you want it made right under warranty. The only issue I see with a warranty repair is if they determine by pressure testing you had left the crown out when it was submersed. If this is not the case, then a warranty repair should be in order.

I wouldn't get hung up at this point on worrying about getting a watch back that has been "soaking in seawater for at least two weeks." Once they agree to repair the watch under warranty, they will do whatever it takes to get the watch functioning again and then pressure test the repair to make sure it is water resistant in the future. The watchmaker is going to determine how to put the watch back in its working state. That could be anything from putting in a new movement, to replacing the whole watch head, to something inbetween. Their goal will be to repair it properly so you don't have to send it in again, as there is no upside to them to do a shoddy repair if they have agreed it is a warranty issue. If all they do is replace the movement, the case will be thoroughly cleaned of any residual sea water, so it will not be an issue in the future.

I recommend that once you get clarification they will repair it under warranty, you simply let them do what they need to do to make the watch right instead of insisting on a brand new watch head as this will only serve to delay matters even more. At the end of the day, you may get a new watch head anyway if they determine it's not repairable in it's current condition. Whatever the outcome, you will get a functioning watch back from them, and if you are not happy with the repair for whatever reason, you can always fight that battle at that time.
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Re: My C65 Trident GMT isn't waterproof!

Post by Bounce »

My take on this is, it will be very hard to prove the OP has done anything wrong, which I am sure he hasn't, so surely the quickest & cheapest option is to exchange the watch?
Would it really be worth CW stripping & replacing numerous parts, face hands etc, I don't think so.
I think you have done the right thing in going higher up the ladder & I hope you are successful in getting it sorted.
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Re: My C65 Trident GMT isn't waterproof!

Post by peterh »

UNIONmagazine wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:13 pm Fingers crossed that reason prevails. The problem is I do not want the watch back that has had it's internals soaking in sea water for at least two weeks.
I can imagine.
But frankly, if it's been soaking in salt water for two weeks, who allowed that to happen?

Seriously: this puzzles me. I'd have rinsed it, and then leave it in a bin with fresh water, as soon as possible. It may be advisable to delete that answer today. I'll keep an eye on it, and delete mine if that happens.
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