My bezel just literally fell off!!

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gatehealing
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My bezel just literally fell off!!

Post by gatehealing »

I paid $2000 for a Frederique Constant classic moonphase slimline and had to send it in BC the crown was far too tight and the stem looks off center where it inserts into the movement, and the reserve is far too low. I haven't paid much over $500 for any CWL (7 of them) and none have had issues.

I am hoping these stories are the exception; my stats are 100% return rate on expensive watches, 0% return rate on CWLs. For me to extend this to all FC watches would be unfortunate, but that 1 experience has put a hesitation in my mind (along with zero cust svc); similarly my 0% return of CWL is not representative of reality either, but their amazing cust svc makes up for my slight worries about a future prob. The 60:60 warranty doesn't hurt either; nor does the price compared to other watches with similar/same movements etc.
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Re: My bezel just literally fell off!!

Post by SimonB »

Ok , so I had QC issues with 2 x C61 watches but the customer service was good and I ended up returning 2nd watch and getting my money back ..... so nothing lost in real terms .
I love the CW idea and yesterday took the plunge and went for a NN C3 - I really hope that this watch will be all that I hope .
The fact is since returning the C61 I've bought and worn Seiko SARB 35 everyday and it's a super bit of kit !
Be interesting to see how the C3 does
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Re: My bezel just literally fell off!!

Post by fissionu235 »

My problem is this......... In order to drop the bucks $$$ on a CW watch in the $1,500+ I need to feel that the watch is solid with a good value and NO annoying mechanical problems........ I have been thinking of a CW Jumping Hour for some time and wanted to wait for the 40mm version.......... NOT real tempting to spend money when the brand is having bezels fall off........ hour markers fall off....... crown issues.......... C11 water issues & Helium Valves......... for the time being I think I will wait and see............ To the poster that wants to compare Omega's with Wards......... you are kidding.............. right ?
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Re: My bezel just literally fell off!!

Post by DEV.Woulf »

Dancematt wrote:
Devarika Woulf wrote:True, but I've rarely heard about people having issues with the standard non-COSC Makaira, other than a few issues about water getting in.
Because that is in no way worse than a bezel pip falling out :lol:
No, it's just as bad but you've missed the point. If I remember correctly now, there were a few issues with the Makairas/Elites filling with water. They were only a few and were sent back and fixed. Now, some helium valves on the Elites have problems. Shame, but we all expect them to be fixed and the problem to be corrected.

The Makaira issues came and went. This helium valve problem will come and go too. The C60s though have had similar bezel issues reported for a long time with no fix ever set in place. It's a sign that the watch is of a lesser quality and unless CW makes a change to the way they manufacture it, the problems will stay. I hope CW discontinues it and comes out with a higher-quality Ceramic version with a fixed date window sometime in the near future. I think it'd better represent the brand moving forward.
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Re: My bezel just literally fell off!!

Post by Dancematt »

Shame? Seriously? The real point is none of this should be happening in the first place.
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Re: My bezel just literally fell off!!

Post by Viognier »

fissionu235 wrote:My problem is this......... In order to drop the bucks $$$ on a CW watch in the $1,500+ I need to feel that the watch is solid with a good value and NO annoying mechanical problems........ I have been thinking of a CW Jumping Hour for some time and wanted to wait for the 40mm version.......... NOT real tempting to spend money when the brand is having bezels fall off........ hour markers fall off....... crown issues.......... C11 water issues & Helium Valves......... for the time being I think I will wait and see............ To the poster that wants to compare Omega's with Wards......... you are kidding.............. right ?
Perhaps read up on the Omega forums for their issues.......lots of those as well.

At the end of the day, all watch companies do not want QC issues, but all have them. The forums are full of us enthusiasts who share all the good and really like to post when things go offside with our watches.
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Re: My bezel just literally fell off!!

Post by robinbarke »

I thought long and hard before describing the C60 as a poor quality watch and I deliberately set out to moderate the impact of this statement by calling the watches housed in the C9 case as generally of good quality. The strongest reaction has, quite predictably come from Alasdair, the arch apologist for CW, who strangely seeks to defeat his counter argument by describing the Forum experiences as statistically irrelevant, after proudly proclaiming that he has three perfect specimens from which he must be inferring something!

I think it extremely unlikely that CW sell all the marginal pieces to Forum members and therefore I think it safe to assume that the Forum represents a good statistical sample to reach a balanced conclusion on the failure rate of of the C60, CW's biggest selling watch.

CW claims a 'less than 1%' returns ratio. Yet Forum members have reported many faults with this model including, inter alia,

Mis-aligned bezels
Seized bezels
Bezels spontaneously detaching
Water ingression through faulty seals
Pips absent

These are all quality issues and if the Forum sample is representative then the wider CW watch buying public all over the world will be experiencing these problems to the detriment of the reputation of the brand. The apologists are doing CW no favours. A rigorous attempt to minimise these issues is called for and until then, in my view, circa £500 is not delivering the quality the buyer rightfully expects.

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Re: My bezel just literally fell off!!

Post by snowman »

I think the mistake that some are making is assuming that a forum is 'representative'.

Lots of people who buy a watch will look at it and see no faults at all, but someone who's spending time joining and contributing to a watch forum will be inevitably more sensitive to tiny faults in a watch.

The suggestion that 'some people having a problem with water getting in' is somehow less than a pip falling off a bezel seems a bit odd to me, but as I don't own a Makira or a C60 (well, I have a Kingfisher, but I guess we're talking about Tridents here?) I can't comment on the relative quality (except to say, you'd expect more from the Makira as it's dearer!).

I have a Citizen Eco Drive that I only ever wear diving. I came back from a dive a couple of weeks ago and dropped it on our tiled kitchen floor and the whole bezel came off. 5 minutes later it was refitted and has been fine since.

Now, I thought this was rather good as it had been easy to fix a fault caused by dropping it onto a hard floor. Some others would no doubt think it outrageous that a bezel should pop off after a relatively gentle fall.

If I'd fallen into the latter category, I might have posted a moan about it on a Citizen forum, but I didn't bother posting about the easy fix anywhere or my pleasant surprise that the watch was otherwise unaffected.

It's a shame to read negative remarks about the C60 Trident as I've always rather fancied one, but I wouldn't consider it a 'poor quality watch' on the strength of a handful of posts from people who are almost inevitably rather picky about such things and prone to raising issues rather than living with things many others wouldn't even notice.

That said, if my bezel insert fell out of a new watch, would I simply glue it back in or get onto CW? I don't really know...

M
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Previously owned : C6 Kingfisher Automatic (yellow) and C60 Trident Automatic (Mk1 - Orange)
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Re: My bezel just literally fell off!!

Post by akirk »

robinbarke wrote:I thought long and hard before describing the C60 as a poor quality watch and I deliberately set out to moderate the impact of this statement by calling the watches housed in the C9 case as generally of good quality. The strongest reaction has, quite predictably come from Alasdair, the arch apologist for CW, who strangely seeks to defeat his counter argument by describing the Forum experiences as statistically irrelevant, after proudly proclaiming that he has three perfect specimens from which he must be inferring something!

I think it extremely unlikely that CW sell all the marginal pieces to Forum members and therefore I think it safe to assume that the Forum represents a good statistical sample to reach a balanced conclusion on the failure rate of of the C60, CW's biggest selling watch.

CW claims a 'less than 1%' returns ratio. Yet Forum members have reported many faults with this model including, inter alia,

Mis-aligned bezels
Seized bezels
Bezels spontaneously detaching
Water ingression through faulty seals
Pips absent

These are all quality issues and if the Forum sample is representative then the wider CW watch buying public all over the world will be experiencing these problems to the detriment of the reputation of the brand. The apologists are doing CW no favours. A rigorous attempt to minimise these issues is called for and until then, in my view, circa £500 is not delivering the quality the buyer rightfully expects.

Robin
I assume that you are deliberately mis-representing my post? (or haven't read it!)
My point about my three is that it would be as significant for me to claim 100% reliability based on those three, as it is to claim the C60 to be of poor quality based on forum posts (i.e. both are statistically irrelevant).

I am not quite sure what an arch apologist is - perhaps similar to an archbishop? :) but I don't make apologies for anyone - I simply post to balance those who derive crazy statements from flawed assumptions - if you believe that the forum CWL watch ownership is significant - back it up with figures. If you believe that the C60 is flawed - lets see the figures / stats...
robinbarke wrote:and therefore I think it safe to assume that the Forum represents a good statistical sample to reach a balanced conclusion on the failure rate of of the C60
And to make that assumption accurate:
- there are how many issues reported on the forum?
- there are how many C60s owned by forum members?
- there are how many C60s sold world-wide?
- the % of C60s with an issue is what?
- etc.
until you can answer those - to make any such assumption is of course completely subjective and likely to be inaccurate.

Until then we whould take a balanced view:
- CWL report less than 1% returns - we have no reason / evidence to suggest that to be inaccurate
- the C6- will be likely to be higher than that (giving an overall average of the sub 1% across models) as its design has a pip and a bezel both of which are vulnerable in normal use - the C5 slimline I am wearing today is by its nature less prone to similar issues as other than a crown it has no external vulnerabilities...
- some members on here are very negative about CWL - that is not a representative view - that they stoop to name calling to try and make points is perhaps indicative of the value of that opinion... ;)

- we all need to take our own balanced view into whether or not we buy - but while issues are frustrating when they happen - (to expect every watch (a delicate mechanical product) to come out perfect is perhaps an unreasonable expectation of any modern company?) they are not generally representative of CWL products...

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Re: My bezel just literally fell off!!

Post by robinbarke »

Alasdair you can huff and puff all you like. I quoted five commonly reported faults by Forum members which should not occur on a divers watch and would not with such frequency on a quality piece.

Let us be conservative and say that each of the quoted faults has been reported half a dozen times. 30 returns by Forum members at a failure rate of 1% represents sales of 3000 watches. What is statistically insignificant in that?

If you had the company's interests at heart you would be encouraging them to make better quality divers rather than excuse all the bits and pieces that regularly detach or fail. It really is laughable that you should argue that the failure rate on these watches will inevitably be high as there are a number of external features.

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Re: My bezel just literally fell off!!

Post by bootsy »

This happened to my wife's C61 after about 2 months of light wear. It got sent back to CW and to be fair they fixed it for free, although they wouldn't let her swap to another watch as it was over 60 days old. We were also without the watch for a month and it is apparently not technically covered by the warranty. She won't wear it now as she is paranoid it will fall off again.
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Re: My bezel just literally fell off!!

Post by SimonB »

Bootsy's post is another example of what appears to be many related to the C60/61 QC issues ..... let's do a poll to see how many members gave had an issue with these watches !
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Re: My bezel just literally fell off!!

Post by akirk »

robinbarke wrote:Alasdair you can huff and puff all you like. I quoted five commonly reported faults by Forum members which should not occur on a divers watch and would not with such frequency on a quality piece.

Let us be conservative and say that each of the quoted faults has been reported half a dozen times. 30 returns by Forum members at a failure rate of 1% represents sales of 3000 watches. What is statistically insignificant in that?

If you had the company's interests at heart you would be encouraging them to make better quality divers rather than excuse all the bits and pieces that regularly detach or fail. It really is laughable that you should argue that the failure rate on these watches will inevitably be high as there are a number of external features.

Robin
We are now really into fairy tales! I think that huffing and puffing tends to be kept there though!
I have no problem with a desire to see the quality at a higher level as I am sure we all do - and as CWL no doubt desires.
If you want to run stats - you need far more information - you need to factor in that issues are more highly reported / % of people with issues who therefore join the forum / etc. - all meaning that the stats are likely to be considerably skewed.
And if the figures are as you suggest then it fits with CWL's comment of c. 1% so in fact you have just demonstrated that it is insignificant.

We need to put this in the context of the fact that some of all watches will fail / some will have issues / etc.
While no company's marketing is going to spell that out, consumers are expected to have a little bit of common sense and understanding of products when they make purchases and a watch like this has a degree of delicacy about it - it is not a g-shock. Therefore a decision about purchase should be made based on whether issues are common / rare - whether they are in expected circumstances or not / how the company reacts if there is an issue...

What is unreasonable is to expect the product to be 100% perfect and blow up a storm based on slim facts or inaccurate assumptions. It is easy to sit on the internet complaining and telling people what they should do, when someone has no responsibility and would undoubtedly do no better themselves...

It would also help if you actually quoted people accurately / derived your conlusions logically ;) at no point do I say:
robinbarke wrote:that the failure rate on these watches will inevitably be high as there are a number of external features.
I mention that across the range, the C60 is likely to have more vulnerabilities due to external features (logical I would have thought) and therefore might have above 1% returns to balance other models with <1% to give an average of under 1% (assumptions, but not unreasonable). Nowhere does that suddenly become: failure rate on these watches will inevitably be high that is shoddy quoting -in fact it changes the meaning of what I said totally!

In all of this I hope we all have a desire for CWL's quality to be as high as possible - I only bother posting this because I think it is inappropriate to have other members of this forum posting such gross inaccuracies which gives a false impression of these watches - it is lazy and inaccurate. I have no particular strong views on the C60s being high quality - other than my experience being good... However until I see some accurate statistics suggsting otherwise then yes, I will support an honest factual understanding... and will provide the inaccurate assumptions being presented as fact...

Alasdair
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Re: My bezel just literally fell off!!

Post by PC-Magician »

I recently acquired a C60 from a forum member, so not brand new.
All I can say is after examining mine very very closely, I cant fault it.
Fit and finish is excellent with nothing lifting or coming loose, and believe me I have looked extremely hard at it.
I can only speak about mine of course.
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Re: My bezel just literally fell off!!

Post by jerryuk »

bootsy wrote:This happened to my wife's C61 after about 2 months of light wear. It got sent back to CW and to be fair they fixed it for free, although they wouldn't let her swap to another watch as it was over 60 days old. We were also without the watch for a month and it is apparently not technically covered by the warranty. She won't wear it now as she is paranoid it will fall off again.
I can't see how a piece of the watch falling off after 2 months could possibly be excluded for the warranty! However if you're in the UK it would be covered by the Sale of Goods act as not being of satisfactory quality irrespective of warranty/guarantee.

For what it's worth, both of my C61's appear perfect so far. Long may this continue!
CW: C61 Black ('14), C3 MkII ('14), C61 Orange ('14), C5A ('10), C60 Pro 38mm Red Bezel, Black Face ('15), C60 Pro 38mm Blue Bezel, Black Face ('15) on black leather - worn once - open to offers.
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