Morgan Sales and SH21 Ltd edition musings

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Morgan Sales and SH21 Ltd edition musings

Post by 5oclockhero »

I see there are some Morgan watches for sale at discount on the website. Now normally a 40mm hand wound in-house 3 hander for that money might get me on board. As it is I'm not keen on the unnecessary Morgan logo, and it seems I'm not alone. That's not even to say I wouldn't like a Morgan in my fantasy garage, but I wouldn't want a Ferrari or Porsche watch either. Maybe it's time for CW to pull the SH21's out of the unsold watches and fit them into some Aquitaines or Sealanders if they will fit ? A special dial would create a tempting edition.
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Re: Morgan Sales and SH21 Ltd edition musings

Post by jkbarnes »

At this point, the Morgan offerings are pretty dated watches within CW’s catalog of watches. I assume they’re just looking to clear them out. I’d have thought one option might be to offer the remaining stock to Morgan at a wholesale discount for Morgan to then sell them on to (or include them with) people buying Morgans.

I also wonder if the relationship with Morgan will be officially over when the last stock is gone?
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Re: Morgan Sales and SH21 Ltd edition musings

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

5oclockhero wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:59 pm Maybe it's time for CW to pull the SH21's out of the unsold watches and fit them into some Aquitaines or Sealanders if they will fit ? A special dial would create a tempting edition.
I’m not sure what is the smallest case that CAN take the SH21, but I believe the smallest watch that has it is the 40mm C9 5-day Small Seconds. As you can see, there isn’t a lot of room to spare.


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Re: Morgan Sales and SH21 Ltd edition musings

Post by NationOfLaws »

I wonder whether Christopher Ward has ever considered a more high profile partnership than a high-end car company a lot of people haven’t heard of. Maybe they ought to partner with a football club ;)
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Re: Morgan Sales and SH21 Ltd edition musings

Post by welshlad »

I've been told by CW in the past that the smallest case size that the SH21 can fit in is 40mm. So Sealander is not an option.

I don't think there can be too many of these Morgan watches left now, so it wouldn't be worth recycling the movements. Indeed, the Aero-8 is no longer showing, so I'm glad I ordered mine when I did, after hankering after one for several years. :) It's due around the end of the month apparently.
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Re: Morgan Sales and SH21 Ltd edition musings

Post by 0uatiOW »

5oclockhero wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:59 pm I see there are some Morgan watches for sale at discount on the website. Now normally a 40mm hand wound in-house 3 hander for that money might get me on board. As it is I'm not keen on the unnecessary Morgan logo, and it seems I'm not alone.
I’m not sure how the Morgan logo can be described as “unnecessary” on this range. I would say it is absolutely necessary, otherwise it wouldn’t be the Morgan line.

Furthermore, I’ve just looked at the C3, with the Morgan logo at 12 and the CW Wordmark nowhere to be seen, which makes the dial more balanced and more attractive (my opinion).
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Re: Morgan Sales and SH21 Ltd edition musings

Post by 5oclockhero »

Perhaps unnecessary is the wrong word. I meant that I expect the watches may have held wider appeal without the car branded tie-ins although not being a marketing person I'm not qualified to say so, and plenty of brands feel the need to give it a go. Its not something that's ever appealed to me however, especially when the input from the car company is little more than a stylistic exercise. Still, choice is always a good thing!
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Re: Morgan Sales and SH21 Ltd edition musings

Post by 5oclockhero »

welshlad wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 4:28 pm I've been told by CW in the past that the smallest case size that the SH21 can fit in is 40mm. So Sealander is not an option.
That still leaves a few options in the current range. Is it me or does there seem to be a bit of a lack of enthusiasm for the SH21 ? Given that every other maker is in a race to build their own movements it seems CW were slightly ahead of current trends at one time, yet there are very few models available. 40mm watches are a potentially very appealing size to many and there seems scope to fit the SH21 into existing models?
Is it because the purchase price is pushed beyond the £1000 point, and this isn't acceptable to most CW customers ?
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Re: Morgan Sales and SH21 Ltd edition musings

Post by welshlad »

I think there is enthusiasm for the SH21, but watches with it are inevitably a little more expensive, so sales volumes won't be so high as watches with regular Sellita movements. Mike France has said they are still very much committed to using the SH21 where appropriate, as it gives them competitive advantage and credibility. But I don't think they can make them in the same volumes that Sellita movements are available, so I don't think they will ever be CW's mainstream movement.

Also, just dropping an SH21 movement into an existing watch design that currently uses a Sellita movement is not that straightforward, even if the case is 40mm or more. There is a cost involved in redesigning the internals of the watch to accommodate the movement, even if it is a straightforward 3-hander. Any date window on the dial would also need to be moved, which requires new dials to be made and more cost. There would have to be large enough expected volumes to make all of this worthwhile.
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Re: Morgan Sales and SH21 Ltd edition musings

Post by Stuart1 »

My understanding is that the SH21 is 32.4 mm diameter (from Watchbase) and the Unitas 6497 is 36.6 mm diameter. The later does fit into a 40 mm case. Also, the Oris calibre 400 fits into a 38.5 mm case.
Thus, there must be some other technical issue they cannot fit it into a smaller case. The margins on the SH21 must be smaller than the standard SW movements.
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Re: Morgan Sales and SH21 Ltd edition musings

Post by thomcat00 »

I very much like the idea of the SH21 powering watches, as noted it elevates CW as an innovative brand. While it is a costlier movement, the retail prices reflect the cost. The Morgan branding does not appeal to me, and there are elements of the Aero 8 watch I would rather see done differently. So, nice though it is, the Morgan line is one I pass by. I feel they have their place. The appeal is limited. True for any kind of tie-in branded watch.

I’d get another SH21-drive. It works well in the 40mm C1 case and the 44mm C8 case. Were it slimmer, I’d find it more interesting. But that definitely depends on the overall aesthetics of the watch.
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Re: Morgan Sales and SH21 Ltd edition musings

Post by 0uatiOW »

I would be very interested to see the SH21 making its way into a standard range, rather than reserved for special editions, but I do wonder how much of a price hike it would inject. The current movement prices will reflect a very modest production volume, and any increased volumes would allow for economies of scale

The SH21 has been around for a while, so perhaps there’s a reason why this hasn’t happened yet.
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Re: Morgan Sales and SH21 Ltd edition musings

Post by 0uatiOW »

5oclockhero wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 6:04 pm Perhaps unnecessary is the wrong word. I meant that I expect the watches may have held wider appeal without the car branded tie-ins although not being a marketing person I'm not qualified to say so, and plenty of brands feel the need to give it a go. Its not something that's ever appealed to me however, especially when the input from the car company is little more than a stylistic exercise. Still, choice is always a good thing!
That’s a different point, and an interesting one. IIRC the Morgan line was initially restricted to Morgan owners. An interesting proposition but one which imposed a limitation on possible customer numbers. Some time later, the range was opened to GenPub, which logically reveals low sales volumes. The fact that these are now (still) appearing in the sales, suggests that the Morgan logo is putting off potential customers who aren’t Morgan owners (your initial point) or the watches themselves are not attractive (or both).

Collaborations can generate interest with product owners, but personally I would not automatically rule out a branded (or co-branded) item because I’m not a product owner - I have just bought a Jaguar branded watch, so for me the Morgan branding per se isn’t an impediment (I’ve already said the C3 has great balance - IMV it’s the most attractive of the 3 listed in the sale).

Any collaboration needs to create something more interesting than an equivalent no-colab product. Maybe the market felt this wasn’t the case.
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Re: Morgan Sales and SH21 Ltd edition musings

Post by Kip »

jkbarnes wrote: Sat Jul 16, 2022 4:09 pm At this point, the Morgan offerings are pretty dated watches within CW’s catalog of watches. I assume they’re just looking to clear them out. I’d have thought one option might be to offer the remaining stock to Morgan at a wholesale discount for Morgan to then sell them on to (or include them with) people buying Morgans.

I also wonder if the relationship with Morgan will be officially over when the last stock is gone?
The agreement with Morgan has already ended which is why they are being dropped.
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Re: Morgan Sales and SH21 Ltd edition musings

Post by CBMVic20 »

I always felt the Morgan tie-up was an odd one for a brand chasing a younger, more dynamic customer base. Wouldn't be surpised if they haven't sold as well as expected although I did like black C1 3 wheeler.
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