Well the Blue Marine Foundation SH21 limited edition finally turned up around the middle of March some nine months late. I wound around 4.75 days of power reserve into it and it was running super accurate. I don't have the most active job, I was really impressed by the auto winding, which kept the power reserve dropping by around 1/10th day per day of wear. This had very quickly become my favourite watch. All was well for the first two weeks, then all of a sudden, the power reserve seemed to be dropping quickly. To accompany this, the usual crisp ratchet sound from the winding system seemed to have turned into a "graunch" sound most of the time. It now loses power reserve at over half a day per day of wear time.

This will be the second early mechanical failure in four watches from CW. There's an old saying in QA: If you can't make it right, make it shiny and bright. I'm beginning to think this is the CW Quality Policy Statement.

@Chris GB that must be disappointing.

If it consoles you even slightly, I''ve yet to have any kind of snag with a SH21 movement*; you seem to have had more than your fair share and I don't blame you for being frustrated.

* You make me want to wind and run all six of the little blighters just to reassure myself!

Yeah, my SH21 went back twice for (no fuss, to be fair) warranty repairs but it was a frustrating experience for an otherwise lovely watch.

Bahnstormer_vRS wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2024 12:13 am ^^^^ Sorry to hear of your issues Chris; most frustrating. I've had a not dissimilar issue with one of my auto SH21 powered CWs in the past.

Not so much that it would progressively lose power reserve but that it would take an age to gain it.

When new, I'd put the watch on my wrist and let it power up over 30 - 45mins, then set it and wear. At the end of the 1st day the PR would be up to c.3.5 - 4 days, which would then be topped off to full during the morning of the second day.

After a while this, excellent, performance dropped off to the point that it would only gain PR at the rate of one day's PR per one day's wear.

A trip to CW for some TLC sorted it, and it was perfect and back to it's initial level of performance ever after.

Guy

This one wont gain even when being worn. I Wore it as a daily and it went from a reserve of 4.75 to stopped in 6 days. When I first had it, it ran for 14 days and dropped from 4.75 to 3.3 days, which I was pleased enough with. Sounds like there is an unresolved design or manufacturing problem. I would be intrigued to see how the information from your issue was used by CW to prevent future nonconformance. Evidence would point to the answer being that it was not.

Sorry to hear your Blue Marine SH21 experiences problems. I hope CW can resolve the problem promptly. Most of the SH21-powered watches I’ve owned have been manual and I’ve had zero issues with them. The one automatic SH21 I sold was a proto and although it kept +/- 10spd the current owner is unhappy it’s not COSC, but being a prototype the movement was not certified. I bought it knowing it was not COSC, and when I sold it that way I informed the buyer.
Let’s trust CW can get your watch back to spec.

I had an SH21 which lost all of its power reserve in matter of seconds.
Was most likely the click failing.
CW repaired it quickly enough for me, under warranty.

I had another where the winding mechanism would slip intermittently. Went back to CW for a warranty job.
It came back with exactly the same problem which frustrated me.
I sent it back to CW. They resolved the problem, second time around.

Looks like a trip back to CW again, unfortunately, for your watch. I hope you get it sorted soon

thomcat00 wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 12:51 am Sorry to hear your Blue Marine SH21 experiences problems. I hope CW can resolve the problem promptly. Most of the SH21-powered watches I’ve owned have been manual and I’ve had zero issues with them. The one automatic SH21 I sold was a proto and although it kept +/- 10spd the current owner is unhappy it’s not COSC, but being a prototype the movement was not certified. I bought it knowing it was not COSC, and when I sold it that way I informed the buyer.
Let’s trust CW can get your watch back to spec.

The auto winding is not working, but the regulation is really excellent. It's around +1spd in general wear, creeping up to +3spd as the power reserve drops into the last day and a half, so I'm really hoping it comes back performing at the same level.

It's just dawned on me that during a recent phone call with CW customer service, they told me the reversing wheel has failed. Am I right in thinking that a watch that is features unidirectional winding does not have a reversing wheel?

Chris GB wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2024 7:07 pm It's just dawned on me that during a recent phone call with CW customer service, they told me the reversing wheel has failed. Am I right in thinking that a watch that is features unidirectional winding does not have a reversing wheel?

Unidirectional movements have a single reversing wheel and a second wheel called an intermediate sliding wheel that moves out of the way so that the rotor can spin freely.

Here is a pretty good explanation of how an automatic winding system works. You can see that you need at least one reverser wheel to get the system to work.

Well it's back from warranty repair and the good news is that the auto winding sounds "better" than it did from new and a week on the wrist shows it to be working excellently.

That's the good bit. The watch was sent for repair in the original coffin box, but was returned to me in the new stubby box. Not great as that box won't fit the manual and additional strap packaging. CW have sent out a replacement coffin box, but it seems silly to make such a basic error.

More disappointing though is the watch went in with a return note stating that regulation was perfect. At +1spd I was really pleased with what I'd describe as optimal running. Following repair, that superb accuracy seems to have suffered. Given that they are only supposed to have replaced the auto winding mechanism, the watch now runs at -2spd. Beat error is now 0.4ms, up from 0.2. Sure it's still within tolerance, but it's not as good as it was. Is it even the same movement I wonder? Did someone take it upon themselves to dismantle and service it - a poor call if it was running so perfectly.

So while I'm happy that the turnaround was reasonably quick, the customer focus seems to have been a bit lacking. The watch is running within tolerance, but has gone from impressing to disappointing because of the loss of performance.

I know CW can offer great value, but I feel there to be just a bit too much disappointment in the mix. Maybe I've been unlucky? I was looking forward to the release of their next mechanical chronograph, but I'm struggling with the idea of buying another CW and seriously considering cancelling my BC order.

Is it even the same movement I wonder? Did someone take it upon themselves to dismantle and service it

Just curiosity on my part, but did you not get told what work had been done? That's what I would expect.

I am the first to stand up and voice concerns over CWs current service policies (and have in several threads and also personal experience) but there are a few things here that I think are worth discussing and food for thought.

You are conflating two different terms here: accuracy and rate. The watch is running at a rate of -2 spd but may still be very accurate. Accuracy is a measurement of how well the watch stays around that rate.

Measurements are tricky. We, as hobbyists, don't have the best equipment or controlled testing environments. Therefore we do the best we can. Because of this, I use my timegrapher etc as 'guides' and on wrist measurements as a real guide. I use the WatchTracker app to make my on wrist measurements largely because I am a little to lazy to do it myself with a spreadsheet etc. It does make a difference. I have one watch that runs -1 spd on average when static. It runs at 0.8 spd when on wrist without fail over several timing runs. You are also only as accurate in your measurements as your equipment. The ubiquitous Weishi is great for hobbyists given the price point but it is far from a claibrated piece of equipment. Measurements can vary over time and shouldn't be taken as gospel for any given measuring period. They are great for measuring trends over time and for doing quick and dirty regulation. Movements will also show different readings under different conditions. I don't know about you, but I am not making my measurements in a strict temperature/humidity controlled environment. Again these can cause drift in measurements. A final thought on measurements, I typically average out 6 positions on my COSC movements. This is really the most accurate way to get a picture of what a watch will do on the wrist. 1 measurement dial up gives you only part of the picture in reality. It can also tell you the best position to leave the watch when not wearing it so that you get the most 'self' regulation each day.

Watch movements are not a static system and are constantly changing. I would not expect a watch to run exactly the same after being shipped, opened and parts changed (no matter what those parts are) and shipped back to me. A lot can change in that evolution. Especially with the regulation. With regulation, the adjustments to be made between +1 and -2 are not even perceptible to the human eye. This is one of the reasons Omega developed their new Spirite system. A final thought on regulation, the SH21 will suffer from the same trouble every movement of this type does - regulation may drift over time because the regulation arms move. They aren't fixed. This is one of the reasons the free sprung balance was developed. Free sprung balances have a better track record of holding regulation over time. The truth is, they may have done exactly what you asked - not touching the regulation. If you hadn't requested that they may have tweaked it a bit before sending it back. My local go to watch maker likes to have them slightly fast when going out the door. There is really no way to tell. I will say that I really doubt it is a different movement. The differences in rate are very small in your measurements. Let alone the cost of an entire movement over servicing the auto-winding system (I can't verify this for 100% but given CWs price conscious nature I doubt they did a swap).

One part that cannot be disputed is the box. You should have gotten the original box back. Although, industry wide this is not atypical. A lot of companies will not ship the watch back in the same container. They will discard the incoming packaging. I never send in anything I want to keep. It shouldn't be that way but it is what it is. CW is big enough now that these little touches may be a thing of the past I am afraid.

I know that this watch was a struggle out of the gate with all of the delays and that everything since has just thrown more wood on the fire.

If it were me, I would wear the watch for a couple of weeks straight keeping track of the time keeping ideally with an app. The benefit of the app is that you don't have to mark the time at regular intervals etc. You just check in at your leisure and it does the math for you. This will average out all of the stuff that taking measurements with a machine does not. I would wager that it will run very accurately over the period and won't drift. The rate may or may not surprise you based on your initial measurement. If the rate is not exactly where you want it, you could investigate further where the trouble is by measuring over several positions and ultimately maybe having someone regulate more to your liking (someone local that you trust or CW - that would be your choice).

Like I said, I know this has been a struggle from the beginning with the delays. I am not sure I would be too concerned with a chronograph offering though as the supply chain for the movement would be completely different. Another SH21 would be a different story although a lot has changed in the last year for the SH21. CW purchasing a stake in a manufacturer should help eliminate delays like they had with the C63s (I should note here that I don't have any inside knowledge outside of what I can glean publicly from CW documentation and interviews).

Chris GB wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2024 11:25 pm Well it's back from warranty repair and the good news is that the auto winding sounds "better" than it did from new and a week on the wrist shows it to be working excellently.

That's the good bit. The watch was sent for repair in the original coffin box, but was returned to me in the new stubby box. Not great as that box won't fit the manual and additional strap packaging. CW have sent out a replacement coffin box, but it seems silly to make such a basic error.

More disappointing though is the watch went in with a return note stating that regulation was perfect. At +1spd I was really pleased with what I'd describe as optimal running. Following repair, that superb accuracy seems to have suffered. Given that they are only supposed to have replaced the auto winding mechanism, the watch now runs at -2spd. Beat error is now 0.4ms, up from 0.2. Sure it's still within tolerance, but it's not as good as it was. Is it even the same movement I wonder? Did someone take it upon themselves to dismantle and service it - a poor call if it was running so perfectly.

So while I'm happy that the turnaround was reasonably quick, the customer focus seems to have been a bit lacking. The watch is running within tolerance, but has gone from impressing to disappointing because of the loss of performance.

I know CW can offer great value, but I feel there to be just a bit too much disappointment in the mix. Maybe I've been unlucky? I was looking forward to the release of their next mechanical chronograph, but I'm struggling with the idea of buying another CW and seriously considering cancelling my BC order.

Good to hear they are sending out a coffin box for you.
With regards to the accuracy, I personally feel you may be splitting hairs and doing CW a disservice - the watch will likely have been thrown around a lot during transit, which has likely caused the difference.
I used to work for a vehicle hire firm. It was shocking to witness a courier throwing parcels from the back of one van to the other, when switching over to a new van. Goes to show that the 'Fragile' tape isn't given a second thought by somebody who is simply in a rush to get from A to B as fast as possible.

I buy/sell many CW watches. I wear a new arrival and so long as it is still within reasonable timing by the end of the day, I am generally happy.
I have a few quartz watches if I need to be assured of accuracy every time.
Perhaps, as you hinted, manual/autos aren't the best option if every second counts for you.

I hope you come to live with the accuracy and enjoy wearing your watch

I expect calling CW watch boxes coffins doesn't convey quite the right message.