just pre ordered a twelve X , bit worried now, hope it doesn't have problems like these

I don't have a C65 bronze hand wind, but I have 3 C65s handwinds - the ones with 12 and 6 indexes. They are super easy to handwind and take only about 18-20 winds to be fully wound. Maybe there is a tiny lag before the movement starts but nothing problematic. Power reserve is a standard 38 hours, and the watches just need a wind each morning.

rkovars wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2024 4:06 pm

PGR101 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2024 11:57 am Interesting to hear some of the comments on the SH21. I have the C65 Trident Bronze LE and the power reserve isn't great and it can only be wound with the crown pushed in, not at first position. And it takes quite a few turns before the second hand starts going.

I can't speak to the PR or how many winds to start as more details would be needed. However, the winding position isn't a fault. That is how the earlier C65s operate. They have a push pull crown as opposed to a screw down crown.

With a screw down crown pos 1 is locked. Pos 2 is winding. Pos 3 is date set (if there is one) and pos 4 is time setting. From the C60 Pro 600 Ombre Manual:

Screenshot 2024-08-21 110438.png


For the push pull crowns like the C65 pos 1 is winding (pushed all the way in), pos 2 is date set, and pos 3 is time set. From the C65 Bronze LE manual:

Screenshot 2024-08-21 110045.png

I would actually consider position 1 to be winding, position 2 to be date change, and position 3 to be time setting. It's just that screw down crowns need the locking mechanism to be released first.

I am a strange chap though,, as I tend to prefer a non screw down hand wound watch. The winding always seems at least as smooth, if not smoother, and you know when the watch is fully wound.

rkovars wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 9:21 pm

JAFO wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 8:41 pm

rkovars wrote: ↑Wed Aug 21, 2024 4:06 pm

I can't speak to the PR or how many winds to start as more details would be needed. However, the winding position isn't a fault. That is how the earlier C65s operate. They have a push pull crown as opposed to a screw down crown.

With a screw down crown pos 1 is locked. Pos 2 is winding. Pos 3 is date set (if there is one) and pos 4 is time setting. From the C60 Pro 600 Ombre Manual:

Screenshot 2024-08-21 110438.png


For the push pull crowns like the C65 pos 1 is winding (pushed all the way in), pos 2 is date set, and pos 3 is time set. From the C65 Bronze LE manual:

Screenshot 2024-08-21 110045.png

I would actually consider position 1 to be winding, position 2 to be date change, and position 3 to be time setting. It's just that screw down crowns need the locking mechanism to be released first.

I am a strange chap though,, as I tend to prefer a non screw down hand wound watch. The winding always seems at least as smooth, if not smoother, and you know when the watch is fully wound.

Doesn't matter what you would consider it, the manual is clear.

Well yes, but then you get the issue described by @PGR101 who sees a difference between a non screw down crown being pushed in to wind, and a screw down crown having to be unsecured before winding, whereas the real difference is just the unscrewing of the crown. I don't suppose many of us even look at the manual to adjust most 3 handed watches. Just maybe the realisation that there's no screw down crown.

There are more complicated crowns such as the new? Omega crowns that don't have a date quick set, but do have an hour adjust setting, both forwards and backwards that adjusts the hour like a GMT without hacking the movement. But you have to cycle the hour change to fix the date. It almost seems like a step back. Then there are some Moonphase watches where the moonphase and the date are set with case side pushers rather than with the crown. I wouldn't be surprised if a Rolex Seadweller owner, or a perpetual calendar owner had to consult his manual every time to set up his watch.

A couple of years ago we bought a new composite door with a mortise lock, whereas before we had always had Yale locks. I suppose we had back door mortice locks.

It took me a while to understand/appreciate that with a Yale lock the door can be unlocked but not opened from the outside without a key, but with a mortise lock, the unlocked door can be opened from either side without a key. There's no distinct "on the latch" setting, if you will. It seemed less secure, if you will.