Let's sort this out, please

Discuss Christopher Ward watches
User avatar
Loddonite
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 4999
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:30 pm
CW-watches: 5
LE-two: yes
LE-three: yes
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Let's sort this out, please

Post by Loddonite »

Interesting post scooter.
scooter wrote: At the end of the day we are all responsible people and should only purchase something we can afford, but nevertheless occasionally overextend ourselves, be it a house, a car, a holiday or a watch.
Absolutely!

I've said it before and I'll no doubt bore you all with it again, but buying multiple watches is a hobby and I refuse to use the word "justify" as I can't see that anyone can justify spending more than £10 on owning one watch. In the case of the FLE, some people like it and some don't, some are willing and able to meet the asking price and some are not. It'd be great if we all liked it (and could afford it) but that isn't going to happen.

Personally... I wouldn't normally spend £600 on a watch as it would use up so much of my hobby-budget, but in this case I will, and I'll either spend less on other watches or (bloody hell...) flip a couple. I don't worry about CW going up-price; it's out of my hands - CW decides the prices - I decide whether to buy. You'll notice that despite a decent post count I only have three CW watches; the three that I liked the look and price of. I couldn't justify buying any of them, but I'm glad I did; I enjoy owning them.

It would be a shame if people who feel an affinity to the brand find that it is slipping away from them in terms of affordability and I think this will feel more real as the prices of flagship watches (C40/C90/C700) creep relentlessly upward ... but CW do still have a lot of watches in the lower price ranges, I suspect that they sell plenty of them, and there'll be more along one day.
Dom
Nothing's forgotten, nothing's ever forgotten.
Image
Ailurophile
Senior Expert
Senior Expert
Posts: 279
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 6:10 pm
CW-watches: 5
Location: Natick, MA

Re: Let's sort this out, please

Post by Ailurophile »

I suppose I would fall under category 2 - I very much appreciate the 2011 FLE, but it's out of my price range. That said, I'm not sure how much can be extrapolated from the price of this particular watch. Yes, it uses a tried and true Unitas movement, and assuming CW was able to obtain 100 of them for less than the price in that ebay link, it's important to keep in mind that the ones in the FLEs are custom decorated, which I'm sure significantly adds to the cost. Also, as Kip mentioned elsewhere, other parts of this watch were custom designed, and given that this is a fairly small run of watches, economy of scale isn't going to help too much here. Besides, this was designed by a committee of forum members, so I'm not sure how indicative it is of CW's future plans.

I, for one, am not particularly concerned by the introduction of higher-end watches to the main CWL lines. Other watch brands produce watches with a wide range of price points, and if Chris can pull this off, all the more power to him.And perhaps it makes our watches a little more valuable and desirable. I don't know.

However, I am more concerned by the noticeable price creep of the lower end watches. I had to do a double take when I saw the price of the red C7. If I remember correctly, it's $100 more than the C7s were only a couple of years ago - that's quite the increase! Unless you have your heart said on a Swiss made quartz watch, Seiko and Citizen really start looking attractive at this price point.

Fortunately for me, there's always the NN route, which I have no problem with.
Lavaine
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 3918
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:45 pm
CW-watches: 5
Location: Alberta, Canada (The Great White North, eh!)

Re: Let's sort this out, please

Post by Lavaine »

Let me start by saying that I won't be purchasing an FLE for various reasons, the main one being size. 43mm is bigger than I would like, and that is purely personal preference.


Having said that, let's look at what is being offered here. This watch is truly unique within the CW range. The only hand-wind, and only indirect seconds watch. In addition to the LE engraving on the caseback, this watch will have a very unique LE plate on the movement itself.
Is it expensive? Yes? Is it priced fairly? Probably. By way of comparison, A Stowa Marine (a company who I feel also has fair prices) with what appears to have the same grade 6498-1 (identical finishing), in a 40mm stainless case, with a one-piece dial (no sunken sub-seconds) is 770 GBP at current exchange. The Stowa Marine watches powered by a 2824-2 is 200 Euro less, so the Unitas does appear to be a very expensive movement in comparison to the ETA. Taking 200 Pounds off the price of the LE brings it to 399 for early bird orders, 65 Pounds more than the C9. Looking at it this way, it seems like a more reasonable premium for the LE.

Just my opinion. No, it's not the cheapest CW available, but it is still reasonably priced for what it is. The FLE's should be something unique and special. This uniqueness comes at a price. Perhaps to appease the 'CW should be cheap' crowd, the 2012 FLE should be a C5 Quartz with "Limited Edition" silk screened on the dial.

I have no doubt that everyone who orders a 2011 FLE will be very satisfied with the watch. I won't own one, and I'm OK with that. I will still be a fan of CW, and will still feel welcome here on the forum without being a FLE owner.

I'm donning my Nomex undies, fire away.

Chris
2017 CW Forum "Darwin Award" winner.
User avatar
downer
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 25482
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:02 pm
CW-watches: 4
Location: UK

Re: Let's sort this out, please

Post by downer »

Lavaine wrote:Let me start by saying that I won't be purchasing an FLE for various reasons, the main one being size. 43mm is bigger than I would like, and that is purely personal preference.


Having said that, let's look at what is being offered here. This watch is truly unique within the CW range. The only hand-wind, and only indirect seconds watch. In addition to the LE engraving on the caseback, this watch will have a very unique LE plate on the movement itself.
Is it expensive? Yes? Is it priced fairly? Probably. By way of comparison, A Stowa Marine (a company who I feel also has fair prices) with what appears to have the same grade 6498-1 (identical finishing), in a 40mm stainless case, with a one-piece dial (no sunken sub-seconds) is 770 GBP at current exchange. The Stowa Marine watches powered by a 2824-2 is 200 Euro less, so the Unitas does appear to be a very expensive movement in comparison to the ETA. Taking 200 Pounds off the price of the LE brings it to 399 for early bird orders, 65 Pounds more than the C9. Looking at it this way, it seems like a more reasonable premium for the LE.

Just my opinion. No, it's not the cheapest CW available, but it is still reasonably priced for what it is. The FLE's should be something unique and special. This uniqueness comes at a price. Perhaps to appease the 'CW should be cheap' crowd, the 2012 FLE should be a C5 Quartz with "Limited Edition" silk screened on the dial.

I have no doubt that everyone who orders a 2011 FLE will be very satisfied with the watch. I won't own one, and I'm OK with that. I will still be a fan of CW, and will still feel welcome here on the forum without being a FLE owner.

I'm donning my Nomex undies, fire away.

Chris
No need for the Nomex. You present a very well reasoned argument. 8)
Richard
User avatar
skidder
Senior Expert
Senior Expert
Posts: 289
Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 5:15 pm
CW-watches: 2
LE-two: yes

Re: Let's sort this out, please

Post by skidder »

I buy decorated Unitas movements for about £120, I can easily see the cost of sales ratio falling in line with CW's pricing policy given the case and other parts.

For me, CW has moved out of the price bracket that made it interesting as a concept but I am not surprised this has happened. I think it has moved out of the quick splurge and I won't even notice it bracket that is interesting for collectors. This probably only impacts a small proportion of the buying population. At £6-700 I know I can get some amazing (parts or) used/vintage watches, Joe Public wants new and can't afford an Omega or whatever for that budget. As such I am sure Chris will continue to enjoy a strong position in a niche.

The CWs I have bought were worth the money I spent on them (and in the one case I felt it was not it was returned the next day). The price point now doesn't get me reaching for my wallet but to be fair my interests have wandered elsewhere in terms of my own tinkering.
CornishDave
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 2320
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:02 am
CW-watches: 8
Location: Northumberland

Re: Let's sort this out, please

Post by CornishDave »

Firstly well done Scooter for trying to move this debate away from the Forum LE thread to one of it's own.

I think that there have been some very substantial hikes in price over the last couple of years. I will use the specific example that I have used in the past, I purchased a new non discounted C8 a couple of years ago for around £240. The current C8 MkI retails for £335 at present and that is pushing a 40% increase in 24 months which to my mind is quite worrying. I have no idea if other similar watchmakers have increased by this sort of amount but I would guess not. I can certainly say that in that period my income has not increased by 40% and I can think of lots of other products that have not. I am not really interested in the price of an Omega or a Rolex nor by what they increase their prices. I cannot justify buying one and I guess I never will. So it appears to me that not only is Chris increasing his prices by producing new and more expensive models, he is also making significant increases on older watch types.

I have no idea if this is justified but I guess if he can sell the C8 at £335 who can blame him. However given this huge increase I no longer quite have the trust in the brand that I did. At present my money will go to the likes of Steinhart, Seiko and the other brands in the up to £300ish area simply because I like some of their designs more and yes if I am really honest my trust in the CW brand is bruised.