Latest CW promo email

Discuss Christopher Ward watches
what-time-is-it
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Re: Latest CW promo email

Post by what-time-is-it »

I guess each case type/dial design starts at 0, so on models with lots of combinations you have quite a few similar 000's.
Serial numbers are more relevant to limited edition or single variant designs I guess.

I'm no expert, perhaps others can confirm the Christopher Ward serial number philosophy?
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Re: Latest CW promo email

Post by Lavaine »

what-time-is-it wrote:I guess each case type/dial design starts at 0, so on models with lots of combinations you have quite a few similar 000's.
Serial numbers are more relevant to limited edition or single variant designs I guess.

I'm no expert, perhaps others can confirm the Christopher Ward serial number philosophy?
CW's serial numbers mean absolutely nothing. With every model and variation getting a new series of numbers starting at 0, there is no way of ascertaining any meaning from the serial number of a given watch. Omega, for example uses sequential serial numbers for all it's watches, so that the approximate age of a watch can be determined by the serial number. JS watches have 2 numbers on the case. A model specific serial number, followed by a overall serial number for the entire JS production. CW serial numbers may as well be random. They would mean about as much as they do now (LE's notwithstanding).
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Latest CW promo email

Post by gaf1958 »

Lavaine wrote:Omega, for example uses sequential serial numbers for all it's watches, so that the approximate age of a watch can be determined by the serial number.
Omega, typically for them, do have an exception. #%^#%*

Speedmaster moon watches (including all of the LE models) with 186x movements, have their own subsets of serial numbers within the main sequence of serial numbers. Lots of moon watches were released for years with serial numbers starting with 7, maybe 77 (I don't have access to my documentation at the moment). The previous subset started with 5something IIRC.

It confused the hell out of me, trying to date some of my watches, until I discovered this little known fact. I think they make the movements and cases in batches, then trickle feed them over the years. AFAIK this is their only exception, but who knows for sure...
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Re: Latest CW promo email

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

Lavaine wrote:CW's serial numbers mean absolutely nothing. With every model and variation getting a new series of numbers starting at 0, there is no way of ascertaining any meaning from the serial number of a given watch.
An oxymoron.

A serial number, by its very presence, gives an identity to the watch. This can then be used for ownership and servicing records.

It is notable that CWL serial numbers have evolved from a simple #1234 to now include the model number impressed on the caseback.

Maybe in another 5-10 years they will evolve to the Omega /Rolex /JS method and 50 years on, a CWL with only #1234 will be collectable as an 'early years model'.

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Re: Latest CW promo email

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

Interesting discussion this.

In previous years, prior to Father's Day, we would have been discussing the merits, or otherwise, of a 15% promotion code.

Times change.

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Re: Latest CW promo email

Post by Kip »

Here is the serial number explanation from my spreadsheet in the Archives.

CWL Serial Numbers Explained

Let me attempt to explain how the serial number system works for CWL.

First of all, strap colors or bracelets have no bearing on serial numbers.

A series such as a C5 will start with #1. Regardless of case color such as C5G or C5S case numbers will not have duplicate numbers. Numbers
are assigned by CWL based on production.

Example:
C5S could be numbered 1-100 and C5G could be 101-500. When the next production run is made the C5S could be 501-800 and
the C5G could be 801-950 etc. The case series is the determining factor. The exceptions are Limited Editions such as the C5A
Malvern Aviator. Although still a C5 case series, it is a LE so therefore carries its own serial numbers. The C6 is another example.
Regardless of the variations of colors available the model is assigned its own serial numbers from 1 on up. A C6SBS could be 1 -75
and the C6SOS could be 76-195 and the C6 SKS could be 196-318 etc..

One more example:
The C4 series is similar to the C6 with many colors available. All will have the serial numbers assigned by CWL
at the time of production and will be consecutively numbered regardless of case or dial color. Except the C4SRS because it is a
Limited Edition. The C4SRS was limited to 200 pieces and therefore has its own serial numbers of 1-200.

Serial numbers were continued without interruption when Swiss production started in August 2008.


The codes that are now on the watches that began with the C65 Trident Classic MKII do incorporate the serial numbers, but only identify the core model watch. They do not include dial or strap colors. Still, this is progress as all prior watches did not even have a model number on the watch. Future collectors will have to rely on photos to identify CW watches.

Regardless of how serial numbers are utilized currently, there is no way to date a CW watch based on a serial number currently. We can currently only estimate the actual age based on the model number and date of release. Until I am able to secure production information this is the best we can do.
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Re: Latest CW promo email

Post by smegwina »

Kip wrote:Here is the serial number explanation from my spreadsheet in the Archives.

CWL Serial Numbers Explained

Let me attempt to explain how the serial number system works for CWL.

First of all, strap colors or bracelets have no bearing on serial numbers.

A series such as a C5 will start with #1. Regardless of case color such as C5G or C5S case numbers will not have duplicate numbers. Numbers
are assigned by CWL based on production.

Example:
C5S could be numbered 1-100 and C5G could be 101-500. When the next production run is made the C5S could be 501-800 and
the C5G could be 801-950 etc. The case series is the determining factor. The exceptions are Limited Editions such as the C5A
Malvern Aviator. Although still a C5 case series, it is a LE so therefore carries its own serial numbers. The C6 is another example.
Regardless of the variations of colors available the model is assigned its own serial numbers from 1 on up. A C6SBS could be 1 -75
and the C6SOS could be 76-195 and the C6 SKS could be 196-318 etc..

One more example:
The C4 series is similar to the C6 with many colors available. All will have the serial numbers assigned by CWL
at the time of production and will be consecutively numbered regardless of case or dial color. Except the C4SRS because it is a
Limited Edition. The C4SRS was limited to 200 pieces and therefore has its own serial numbers of 1-200.

Serial numbers were continued without interruption when Swiss production started in August 2008.


The codes that are now on the watches that began with the C65 Trident Classic MKII do incorporate the serial numbers, but only identify the core model watch. They do not include dial or strap colors. Still, this is progress as all prior watches did not even have a model number on the watch. Future collectors will have to rely on photos to identify CW watches.

Regardless of how serial numbers are utilized currently, there is no way to date a CW watch based on a serial number currently. We can currently only estimate the actual age based on the model number and date of release. Until I am able to secure production information this is the best we can do.
Interesting, but at the end of the day, serial numbers are utterly pointless and a complete waste of real estate on a CW watch.

Despite Kips best efforts (bravo on that by the way Kip!!) , they appear to be completely devoid of any relevant detail.

You cannot identify the movement, age, or indeed track a watch through servicing or repairs via the serial number. There is simply no point to them, and is one of the most bizarre aspects of their business practice!

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Re: Serial numbers

Post by Renton »

On the subject of serial numbers, I once bought a used CW which came with no paperwork.
I contacted CW to ask about possibility of getting a replacement book but they said they couldn't help based on serial number alone, they needed the original order number or name/address of original buyer, which as suggested above, seems to render serial numbers a little irrelevant.

I get the desirability of having number 000 or 001 in a collection though, even if the rest of the numbers mean next to nothing.

Also on the subject of serial numbers, I once bought a newly released model and it came with a serial number in the 100s, then a friend of mine bought one a couple of months later and his was in the 50s. I'm not complaining about it, but it did come across as somewhat unexpected.
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Re: Latest CW promo email

Post by Watchamacallit »

It is a bit much to say the serial numbers are pointless, as they do uniquely identify the watch (case). It seems logical to order watches based on their production sequence and family (case), even though that means that a consumer who does not have access to production information cannot identify when it was manufactured. Maybe CW does not want their total production numbers to leak out through the use of overall sequential serial numbers.

I would be shocked if CW did not track the serial numbers of sold watches. Which is a different question from whether their customer software provides an interface to query the database of previously sold watches by serial number. Otherwise I could buy two Tridents separated by months/years and return the first one under the 60 day no-questions-asked policy or send it back for warranty repairs after the 60:60 limits.
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Re: Latest CW promo email

Post by Lavaine »

A series such as a C5 will start with #1. Regardless of case color such as C5G or C5S case numbers will not have duplicate numbers. Numbers
are assigned by CWL based on production.
Based on the current sale, this is incorrect. CW is selling 10 C8 Flyers numbered 000 and 001. Obviously this policy of not duplicating serial numbers based on case colour, dial etc, is either incorrect, or has changed. CW are pawning off these so-called "one-offs", each of which shares it's supposedly unique serial number with 4 other C8 Flyers carrying the identical serial number.
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Re: Latest CW promo email

Post by Scrogg »

Lavaine wrote:CW is selling 10 C8 Flyers numbered 000 and 001.
Currently showing only seven (I'm guessing the other three sold in the last 30 minutes?):

38mm Steel Black Automatic 000
38mm Steel Black Automatic 001

44mm Steel Black Automatic 001

38mm Steel Black Quartz 000
38mm Steel Black Quartz 001

44mm Steel Black Quartz 000

44mm Vintage Black Quartz 001

Do these count as duplicates as they are different sizes/movements/colours?
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Re: Latest CW promo email

Post by Lavaine »

Scrogg wrote: Do these count as duplicates as they are different sizes/movements/colours?
Based on Kips assertion that serial numbers are not duplicated within a case number, yes.
A series such as a C5 will start with #1. Regardless of case color such as C5G or C5S case numbers will not have duplicate numbers. Numbers are assigned by CWL based on production.
Either CW duplicates serial numbers within the same case number, or they don't. It is obvious from the current sale that while the quote above may have been true at one time, the numbering system has changed, and multiple variations within the same model range may now carry the same serial number. It would help explain why CW can't transfer a warranty or provide original sales information with just a serial number. There are how many different versions of the C60? If each of those versions has a Number 001, then there is no meaning whatsoever to buying C60 Number 1, since it is actually 1 of many.
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Re: Latest CW promo email

Post by Kip »

These numbers are not duplicated.

Each group is a different model. case color doesn't matter, but case size does.

38mm Steel Black Automatic 000
38mm Steel Black Automatic 001


44mm Steel Black Automatic 001

38mm Steel Black Quartz 000
38mm Steel Black Quartz 001

44mm Steel Black Quartz 000
44mm Vintage Black Quartz 001


There should only be one Number 1 per model, but there could be several numbered 0000 as these are pre production prototypes and are the first ones built for inspection prior to a production run.
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Re: Latest CW promo email

Post by smegwina »

Watchamacallit wrote:It is a bit much to say the serial numbers are pointless, as they do uniquely identify the watch (case). It seems logical to order watches based on their production sequence and family (case), even though that means that a consumer who does not have access to production information cannot identify when it was manufactured. Maybe CW does not want their total production numbers to leak out through the use of overall sequential serial numbers.

I would be shocked if CW did not track the serial numbers of sold watches. Which is a different question from whether their customer software provides an interface to query the database of previously sold watches by serial number. Otherwise I could buy two Tridents separated by months/years and return the first one under the 60 day no-questions-asked policy or send it back for warranty repairs after the 60:60 limits.
Sorry, you can't tell anything from the CW serial number, with the exception of a couple of ltd ed models. (Fle blue, 1-50, red 51-100)

Other than that, there seems to be cock all information linked to the serial.

Movement - you can't tell whether you have an ETA or a Sellita via the serial, and neither can CW.

Model variation - each individual variance has duplicated serial numbers, or they are all mixed in together with a totally random allocation.

Warranty - if you buy a CW watch and don't get the booklet, tough titty, because you ain't getting anything done under warranty. They use the booklet, not the serial number to know when the watch was sold.

Order/service tracking. - they use the order number, not the serial number to track a watch through service and repair.

It appears to be a complete waste of money etching the serial number, as it is as much use as a condom machine in a convent. There seems to be no info linked to it.

Utterly bizarre in my opinion, but there you go.

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Re: Latest CW promo email

Post by MiniMpi »

smegwina wrote:It appears to be a complete waste of money etching the serial number, as it is as much use as a condom machine in a convent.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :clap:
Excellently put Nick !
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