Kip wrote:

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:46 am

Dynamite_Kid19 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:05 am I'll see the SW300 and raise you the Lajoux Perret G100. 68 power reserve and made to fit cases that house the SW200/ETA2824 so all of the current watch lineup would work without changes.

Cost-wise, how would it compare?

I think the movement cost is approx. 1/3 higher which would probably translate to a watch price increase of roughly $250 - $300. A bigger problem would be acquiring the movements in volume. Actual research would produce more accurate numbers.

Yes it is pricier and I think the 1/3 is accurate. If Zelos can put it in $800 watch I think CW could manage with a reasonable increase and not push them too high. Not sure of production numbers but they are owned by the Citizen Group and have said their goal is to be a replacement for the SW or ETA. I also forgot to mention it does not have the winding issue that some people have had with the SW. I personally haven't had any issues with winding my SW's.

I'd be up for the increased cost. Could allow CW to create 3 price tiers, SW equipped could be Trident 300, LJP Trident Pro 600 or 1000 and then inhouse Tridents.

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Dynamite_Kid19 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:07 am I'd be up for the increased cost. Could allow CW to create 3 price tiers, SW equipped could be Trident 300, LJP Trident Pro 600 and then inhouse Tridents.

And with a bit of luck something for the non-Trident caucus as well.

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote:

Dynamite_Kid19 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 11:07 am I'd be up for the increased cost. Could allow CW to create 3 price tiers, SW equipped could be Trident 300, LJP Trident Pro 600 and then inhouse Tridents.

And with a bit of luck something for the non-Trident caucus as well.

Totally agree. The LJP shares architecture with the Miyota 9015. Now that Citizen has a jumping hour GMT movement the 9075, imagine that LJP'd into 1 with the longer power reserve.

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I have not had good luck with Sellita, but it’s served a good purpose for the industry.

After wading through this, I was surprised to see no mention of the four (4) grades of the SW200-1. The folks over at Caliber Corner have a deep dive on the differences between Standard, Special (Elabore), Premium (Top) and Chronometer – COSC grades. See https://calibercorner.com/sellita-grades/ for criteria. My Aquitaine features "Elaboré ‘Colimaçoné’ finish on the movement" so I'd guess it is the Special. MyC63 Bronze Sealander makes no mention of Incabloc though the SW COSC should have that. CW simply mentions an "anti-shock system." After reading Caliber Corner, I'd like more details on which CW models have which grade of the SW200-1.

All CW ETA or Sellita movements are minimum Elabore'/Special grade with Incabloc upgrade unless something has changed I am unaware of.

When did CW last use an ETA movement?

Probably one of the previous GMTs?

DavidHRC wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:14 pm After wading through this, I was surprised to see no mention of the four (4) grades of the SW200-1. The folks over at Caliber Corner have a deep dive on the differences between Standard, Special (Elabore), Premium (Top) and Chronometer – COSC grades. See https://calibercorner.com/sellita-grades/ for criteria. My Aquitaine features "Elaboré ‘Colimaçoné’ finish on the movement" so I'd guess it is the Special. MyC63 Bronze Sealander makes no mention of Incabloc though the SW COSC should have that. CW simply mentions an "anti-shock system." After reading Caliber Corner, I'd like more details on which CW models have which grade of the SW200-1.

This is what I’m trying to get to the bottom of too. Incabloc upgrade is great. But the most important upgrade is the hair spring. Trying to find out everything I can on the Trident 300 before I fork over my hard earned cash.

Didgehead wrote: ↑Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:34 am

DavidHRC wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:14 pm After wading through this, I was surprised to see no mention of the four (4) grades of the SW200-1. The folks over at Caliber Corner have a deep dive on the differences between Standard, Special (Elabore), Premium (Top) and Chronometer – COSC grades. See https://calibercorner.com/sellita-grades/ for criteria. My Aquitaine features "Elaboré ‘Colimaçoné’ finish on the movement" so I'd guess it is the Special. MyC63 Bronze Sealander makes no mention of Incabloc though the SW COSC should have that. CW simply mentions an "anti-shock system." After reading Caliber Corner, I'd like more details on which CW models have which grade of the SW200-1.

This is what I’m trying to get to the bottom of too. Incabloc upgrade is great. But the most important upgrade is the hair spring. Trying to find out everything I can on the Trident 300 before I fork over my hard earned cash.

I am pretty sure that Sellita buys their balance assemblies from Swatch. They have Nivarox hairsprings.

Straight from the datasheet for the SW200-1 Standard and Elaboré have Novodiac shock protection*. The Premium and COSC have Incabloc*. From what I gather there is no difference between the two in shock protection. The only difference is in the way the spring is installed making the Incabloc easier to service than Novodiac.

*It used to be that you could request changes to the lower grade movements to get Incabloc. That may or may not still be the case.

I would guess that CW gets whatever movements they can at the time. They shoot for Elaboré but sometimes get standard movements because that is what is available.

rkovars wrote: ↑Thu Oct 06, 2022 3:18 pm I would guess that CW gets whatever movements they can at the time. They shoot for Elaboré but sometimes get standard movements because that is what is available.

Kip wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 9:44 am All CW ETA or Sellita movements are minimum Elabore'/Special grade with Incabloc upgrade unless something has changed I am unaware of.

Can’t both be right??

rkovars wrote: ↑Thu Oct 06, 2022 3:18 pm I would guess that CW gets whatever movements they can at the time. They shoot for Elaboré but sometimes get standard movements because that is what is available.

CW does not just accept what they can get.

With minimun quanties ordered (usually 100 pc's) at Sellita, a brand can make some changes to the movements. CW has primarily used the "Special" grade of the SW200 that comes standard with the Novidiac shock system, but has always ordered these with Incabloc. If shortages on Special I believe they have also bought the "Premium" grade so that. either way, they matched up with the ETA 2824 movements.

Kip wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 10:44 am

rkovars wrote: ↑Thu Oct 06, 2022 3:18 pm I would guess that CW gets whatever movements they can at the time. They shoot for Elaboré but sometimes get standard movements because that is what is available.

CW does not just accept what they can get.

With minimun quanties ordered (usually 100 pc's) at Sellita, a brand can make some changes to the movements. CW has primarily used the "Special" grade of the SW200 that comes standard with the Novidiac shock system, but has always ordered these with Incabloc. If shortages on Special I believe they have also bought the "Premium" grade so that. either way, they matched up with the ETA 2824 movements.

This is exactly what I meant. Not that they would accept something they didn't order. I should have been more clear. If something isn't available when they need it, it is reasonable to seek out alternatives. This is what you have to do to get almost anything manufactured where you aren't keeping large inventories. It doesn't get over the lower specs for a lower grade however. The shock protection is literally transparent to anyone but the watchmaker. Average deviation and adjustment for positions aren't. It would explain why CW always uses the loosest spec (they should). They can't always guarantee you are going to get the tighter average or more accuracy over more positions that you get with the better grades. As an aside, the SW300 would also get rid of this aspect as they start at the special/Elaboré level. There is no standard grade.

My C65 Sandstorm is powered by an SW-200 and I had no issue with after nearly 2 years of ownership. I cannot really compare it to an equivalent movement from another maker tho as this specific watch is the only automatic in my small collection (which otherwise are all time only hand wounds...)

SebLat wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:44 pm My C65 Sandstorm is powered by an SW-200 and I had no issue with after nearly 2 years of ownership. I cannot really compare it to an equivalent movement from another maker tho as this specific watch is the only automatic in my small collection (which otherwise are all time only hand wounds...)

That is a good one to start out with! The Sandstorm has a COSC movement in it which is the highest possible grade.