Is the Sellita SW200 a good movement?

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Re: Is the Sellita SW200 a good movement?

Post by SimonGermany »

This from a watchmaker acquaintance:

“ Well… it’s a topic I could talk for days about. Lol
Putting it plainly, Sellita just aren’t anywhere near the quality of the ETA calibres they are replicating.
But that’s the point, they are replica movements of the perfect Swiss movements.
They now make replicas of the 2824, 2892 & the 7750.
While I feel for the brands, as they had no choice but to find someone to supply movements, I still shudder when a watch comes in for service and it has a sellita movement.
I can almost guarantee the wheels that I need to replace before I even open the case back.
On the ETA, you could probably get 20yrs of wear, before you need to replace the winding mechanism (manual wind and automatically), and even then it would likely be the reverser wheels that would be a bit worn.
On the sellita, we have seen that on nearly every watch that comes in for service, both of the reverser wheels, the intermediate wheels that they mesh with and every wheel between the crown and the mainspring, need to be replaced. Every time……
Sometimes we get a watch back after 18months or so, with all of those wheels worn out, teeth missing, broken springs, damaged pivots, etc, etc.

It’s like they are just made from completely inferior materials.
Sellita state that all ETA parts interchange with the Sellita replica, but that just isn’t so.
If you fit ETA parts to try and better the quality and therefore better the service interval, it just doesn’t work. The wheels “just” don’t match up properly, the pivots are “just” the wrong size, or the teeth are “just” too unfinished.

That’s why it is amazing to see brands developing in-house calibres, albeit using movements from Seiko watches in the 60s and 70s and modifying them to make them current.
I’ve been hoping that Sellita would improve in time as so many brands adopted their movements, but it’s just never happened.

That’s why I always recommend looking for a watch with an ETA in it. Or an in-house movement. “
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Re: Is the Sellita SW200 a good movement?

Post by nbg »

^^^ Interesting. :)

I guess folk will have to decide:

- Simon Freese, or

- Your watchmaker acquaintance?

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Re: Is the Sellita SW200 a good movement?

Post by welshlad »

^^^ Exactly. Without knowing the name and credentials of the "watchmaker acquaintance" no credence can be seriously given to those comments. Anyone, with any sort of vested interest, could have written them.
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Re: Is the Sellita SW200 a good movement?

Post by Flef »

I've been buying and sometimes selling watches for over 40 years. I am not a watchmaker just a very keen enthusiastic collector. Most of my watches have been eta valjoux based, and many heavily modified.
But in recent years my attention has been the exciting development of microbrands, especially but not exclusively British.
The likes of cw, Marloe, pinion, farer etc hold their own over many Swiss brands many times the cost. The unfortunate thing is the reluctance to embrace some very fine Japanese movements that imo equal the old Swiss movements in terms of reliability and accuracy.
Do the new Swiss movements cut it, well time will tell. Pun intenteded. But at this moment in time it's clear some don't.
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Re: Is the Sellita SW200 a good movement?

Post by Lavaine »

Kyledemo wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:03 pm I’m my personal experience, the SW200-1 is an outstanding movement. When I think of “outstanding” I think of a few things:

Accuracy
Reliability
Serviceability
Ease of use
Value for money

Based on the above criteria, the Sellita (and its father, ETA) is just flat out better than the competition.

There’s a reason that brands whose horological history spans centuries choose these movements to run their watches. There’s also a reason CW, who boasts a five year warranty, chose this movement. They don’t want your watch to come back to their factory during their warranty. The easiest way to prevent warranty repair is to choose the most reliable movement for the money. That’s exactly what they (and every other brand) did; they assessed the movements available to them at the price they were willing to pay, and the Sellita was the winner. Same with Sinn, same with IWC, same with Tudor, same with… you get the point.
I can agree that the SW 200 is a mostly dependable movement, winding issue notwithstanding. I don't think this is enough to qualify it as an outstanding movement. At it's core, the SW200 is nothing more than a clone of a 40 year old design. It is no more outstanding than the STP 1-11, PT5000, other clones, or the ETA 2824 for that matter.
In 1982 the 2824 probably was an outstanding movement. But that was 40 years ago. For a movement to be outstanding, it think it requires more than simply copying another's work. The SW200 (and others) lack:

Original design
Modern materials
Anti-magnetic properties
Long power reserve
Refinement (rough winding and relative thickness)

The SW200 is a good movement, with one outstanding flaw that Selitta will hopefully address. In my (consumer, not a watchmaker) opinion, it is far from exceptional in a sea of virtually identical movements.
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Re: Is the Sellita SW200 a good movement?

Post by stefs »

I have recently bought 5 cw watches with this movement. The full set of LE 36 and also the Atoll. I may have been lucky but they are all running with COSC limits. However if I put one on I always wind it by hand to get it running before setting it. Is this something that I should avoid doing? In other words is it safer to just wear it for a while to get it running and then set it?
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Re: Is the Sellita SW200 a good movement?

Post by Richard D »

stefs wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:19 am In other words is it safer to just wear it for a while to get it running and then set it?
Several people have recommended to me, including watchmakers, wear and then set the time.
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Re: Is the Sellita SW200 a good movement?

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

^^^^ Yes, Paul; its safe.

If anything it is safer than hand winding an Automatic with the stresses and strains you put on the crown.

My general routine it to select my watch to wear before turning in to bed, and set it aside ready for the morning. This will usually be a 'stopped' watch.

When I wake up and get up, I put my watch on and, having worn it for normally only 15 - 20 minutes it has started ticking. At an opportune moment I set the day/date/time as required. Job done.

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Re: Is the Sellita SW200 a good movement?

Post by jkbarnes »

This has been a fascinating thread to read. Thank you to everyone for the comments and personal observations.

At the end of the day, it sounds like everyone’s thoughts are driven by predominantly anecdotal evidence - namely, their own personal experiences. There’s nothing wrong with anecdotal evidence. I make decisions all the time on anecdotal evidence. I also hold a number of positions based on anecdotal evidence.

But I also avoid making broad assumptions or assertions based on just my anecdotal evidence and when expression my opinions, I’m quick to qualify them as being purely anecdotal.

YMMV
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Re: Is the Sellita SW200 a good movement?

Post by thomcat00 »

I don’t have deep experience with a large variety of automatic movements but a couple of my Sellita-powered watches are over a decade old and running just fine. They may not be outstanding, they may have their flaws and cheaper materials, but the SW200 movements are workhorses - serviceable workhorses. They are decently durable with a ready supply of replacement parts. Also, and I recognize not everyone will share my attitude or opinion, if the movement gives up the ghost, getting a replacement SW200 is an easy swap for a watch. I like most of my watches enough that I would likely spend the 200-300 USD to put in a new movement. Granted I’ve only done this once, and true, the new movement cost more that the jeweler thought the watch was worth, but I wanted it done, he took my money, and returned to me a working watch that has lasted many more years. My oldest C5 Malvern was serviced about 4 years ago by CW; its original owner had the work done before selling it to me. Was the service worth it? The watch runs.

I’ll also note I’ve had no other issues with any watch, regardless of movement, and the oldest of my watches date to 1986 - all still work. I appreciate I may be lucky.
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Re: Is the Sellita SW200 a good movement?

Post by albionphoto »

My guess is that a watch brand must take a number of things into consideration when choosing a movement.

Marketing (and Swiss regulations) probably demands a Swiss movement in a watch marked Swiss made.
Availability. A movement must be available in the quantities a watch brand needs when a watch brand needs them.
Reliability - if you're offering a 5 year warranty you'll need to be sure that your warranty costs are low for the number of watches you sell.
Cost - CW are very transparent about their costs. Remember it's fully absorbed cost multiplied by three. If you buy a CW for 900 dolllars it's total cost is 300 dollars and that's not just parts, it's assembly, marketing, design and so on.

The above isn't in order and there are other considerations but it should give people pause to think about what goes into movement choice.

Is the SW200-1 a great movement? Hard to say. It's not a direct clone of the ETA 2824 anymore (the number of jewels are different, for example). CW claim to have a good relationship with Selitta (Jahnke is Selitta's technical director, after all). By general reputation the SW200-1 has appropriate reliability and serviceability for what it costs.

There has been a spate of SW200-1 issues on here recently but just think about this, if every watch CW sell needed an expensive warranty repair CW wouldn't use the movement because they'd be too busy with bankruptcy proceedings...

I have a number of CWs using the SW200-1. I wear them in some form of rotation. When I want to wear one I wind it by hand and I've never had a problem.
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Re: Is the Sellita SW200 a good movement?

Post by rkovars »

The SW200 is fine. Where I fall though is that it has become NH35/4R35 of the current watch market. I would like to see CW up the value proposition by using the SW300 across the board. Slimmer than the 200 with a better power reserve. It would also elevate them above the crowd a little.
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Re: Is the Sellita SW200 a good movement?

Post by Dynamite_Kid19 »

rkovars wrote:The SW200 is fine. Where I fall though is that it has become NH35/4R35 of the current watch market. I would like to see CW up the value proposition by using the SW300 across the board. Slimmer than the 200 with a better power reserve. It would also elevate them above the crowd a little.
I'll see the SW300 and raise you the Lajoux Perret G100. 68 power reserve and made to fit cases that house the SW200/ETA2824 so all of the current watch lineup would work without changes.

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Re: Is the Sellita SW200 a good movement?

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

Dynamite_Kid19 wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:05 am I'll see the SW300 and raise you the Lajoux Perret G100. 68 power reserve and made to fit cases that house the SW200/ETA2824 so all of the current watch lineup would work without changes.
Cost-wise, how would it compare?
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Re: Is the Sellita SW200 a good movement?

Post by Kip »

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:46 am
Dynamite_Kid19 wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:05 am I'll see the SW300 and raise you the Lajoux Perret G100. 68 power reserve and made to fit cases that house the SW200/ETA2824 so all of the current watch lineup would work without changes.
Cost-wise, how would it compare?
I think the movement cost is approx. 1/3 higher which would probably translate to a watch price increase of roughly $250 - $300. A bigger problem would be acquiring the movements in volume. Actual research would produce more accurate numbers.
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