Interesting reaction from another forum

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highway62

Re: Interesting reaction from another forum

Post by highway62 »

Respect to Downer for at least stating a case.
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Re: Interesting reaction from another forum

Post by downer »

robert75 wrote: I dont think thats true. Someone who goes say diving needs a very specific watch to do a specific task. The job I do I need a robust watch, accurate, good lume, 24 hour with possible day/date. Those specifications are not going to cost "A few quid".
Of course you can get a functional watch for a few quid. Get a G-Shock or a Seiko diver.
robert75 wrote:
Outside of work I use different watches depending on what I am doing (Going out for a meal going hiking etc..... Yes I could buy a Timex for a tenner but personally I would prefer a nice Swiss made hand wind on my wrist when going out).
I think you've hit the nail on the head....People like nice things, and are prepared to pay more for them. :)
robert75 wrote:
I would say it is pretty reasonable to rationalise the price. Its for this reason I would say Seiko beat all opposition hands down for value, structure and accuracy. Damasko have standard ETA watches but put in a lot of extra work on the case/accuracy etc which add to the value, they still manage to keep their prices low.
I agree. Damasko offer good value, although they have chosen a different sales model, which limits their scale.
robert75 wrote: Rolex and Omega can always ask for top prices because they have the pedigree to back them up. If you are starting new in the game you need some angle otherwise you are just another watch company and I think thats what some people are getting at. From what you are saying Bremont have a lot to offer the question is do their prices reflect what they have to offer in comparison to other brands out there. Bremont are competing in the same market as Omega and the like and thats some stiff competition so they are going to need to offer something to get people buying.
Bremont appear to be doing ok. They just opened a boutique in an expensive part of London, they spend a lot on advertising (e.g. the Wingman etc), and they are constantly bringing out new models (the implication being that that they are investing in the product). From this I deduce they are selling a few watches and competing well enough at their chosen price point.
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Re: Interesting reaction from another forum

Post by ianblyth »

robert75 wrote:Rolex and Omega can always ask for top prices because they have the pedigree marketing to back them up.
Fixed that.
robert75 wrote:Bremont are competing in the same market as Omega and the like and thats some stiff competition so they are going to need to offer something to get people buying.
People are already buying and you just need to see the threads on here. And on TZ-UK Bremont have a Marmite reaction. Whether they are selling to the general public or just watch enthusiasts is another matter. But anything above a £10 Casio is a purchase based on desire and world view rather than needs. Like many things (cars, hi-fis, large LED TVs) people (well males actually) tend to justify their purchase with the technical specifications.
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Re: Interesting reaction from another forum

Post by robert75 »

Downer I think you and I have a different definition of what a few quid is. I currently use a Seiko or Citizen diver for work. :lol: They are robust, look the part, good lume, day/date and 24 hour everything I am looking for in a watch for work. (They also cost more than a few quid :lol: Generally over 100 quid ) Personally I do not want 48mm of plastic on my wrist (Not to mention the fact that its impractical for my job) So I will give Casio a miss.

If Bremont are doing well good luck to them, personally I think they look like decent watches. Never seen one in the flesh but I have never read a negative review of them. The OP makes a good point though in what they have to offer and if there are options that are half the price I would probably give Bremont a miss.

ianblyth.

Not sure what you are fixing but are you seriously saying Rolex and Omega have no pedigree and its just marketing? Both have been around for a long time and will continue to be so for a very good reason. They are respected names that people know and trust. Thats not marketing thats just reality.

Anything over a £10 Casio is not based on desire or world view. Sorry but thats just nonsense. At times places I work in can be low light/poor visibility at £10 Casio in these conditions is frankly useless (I know from experience the back light is a waste of space) I use the 24 hour clock often and often need to switch, I need a watch that is durable (Casio straps barely last 12 months if you are lucky) I need something thats robust (One rough knock on a cheap digital and its in the bin)

Yes it only costs £10 but why bother when you can pay a bit more and get a watch thats all of the above and doesnt fall to pieces after 12 months. Thats not based on look at me thats based on having a watch that fits the bill.
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Re: Interesting reaction from another forum

Post by lloyd_m »

robert75 wrote: At times places I work in can be low light/poor visibility at £10 Casio in these conditions is frankly useless (I know from experience the back light is a waste of space) I use the 24 hour clock often and often need to switch, I need a watch that is durable (Casio straps barely last 12 months if you are lucky) I need something thats robust (One rough knock on a cheap digital and its in the bin)
.
Robert. Get a Traser. I have a 13 year old T5000 and the GTLS lume is as good today as it was then. I also have an Automatic Classic Pro, which they sadly don't make anymore, and his been my main watch for over 3 years. It has been scuba diving and sailing in the Med, bashed, dropped, scraped and generally abused. The PVD bracelet has worn away in a few places, so I have replaced it with a Maratac strap and I still find myself looking at it. It cost me £350. My son has a military Traser, which he wears for Army Cadets on night manoeuvres. SAS use them, so they are proven.
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Re: Interesting reaction from another forum

Post by robert75 »

lloyd_m wrote:
robert75 wrote: At times places I work in can be low light/poor visibility at £10 Casio in these conditions is frankly useless (I know from experience the back light is a waste of space) I use the 24 hour clock often and often need to switch, I need a watch that is durable (Casio straps barely last 12 months if you are lucky) I need something thats robust (One rough knock on a cheap digital and its in the bin)
.
Robert. Get a Traser. I have a 13 year old T5000 and the GTLS lume is as good today as it was then. I also have an Automatic Classic Pro, which they sadly don't make anymore, and his been my main watch for over 3 years. It has been scuba diving and sailing in the Med, bashed, dropped, scraped and generally abused. The PVD bracelet has worn away in a few places, so I have replaced it with a Maratac strap and I still find myself looking at it. It cost me £350. My son has a military Traser, which he wears for Army Cadets on night manoeuvres. SAS use them, so they are proven.
I was looking at them a while back they have a good entry priced one as well. A few people told me that Tawatec where the better brand but the 47mm size put me off. I hear Traser do theirs in a G10 size. The only watches I have had that can take a good beating and come back for more have been Seiko May give them a second look now :thumbup:
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Re: Interesting reaction from another forum

Post by lloyd_m »

This is the model I've got.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Traser-H3-Mil ... 685wt_1413

I like the high visibility, both day and night. It's my 'go to' watch for everyday roughing it.
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Re: Interesting reaction from another forum

Post by bydandie »

highway62 wrote:
bydandie wrote:
highway62 wrote:IMO Bremont have pulled off a neat trick by convincing people of their quality by charging inflated prices for pretty average watches from a company with no history. Good for them if they can manage it.
Yes, before anyone asks I have seen and handled in them in the metal.
So what makes them 'pretty average'?
Extraordinary history in watchmaking-no

Revolutionary new complications-no

Fantastic use of new materials in watchmaking- no (yes, yes,I know hardened steel...)

Hand crafted in house movements- no

Unique styling unlike anything else in the watch industry-no

Singular build quality , this one is subjective, but they certainly didn't blow my socks off.

Higher than average prices- oh yes.

Well you asked :wink:
I did ask, so thanks for the responses! :)

History - very few brands can legitimately lay claim to the history of the past - either due to no longer being the same organisation (e.g. Breitling, Graham) or forsaking the designs that made them great (e.g. Breitling, IWC etc). The English brothers did look to start a company with a resurrected name, but then chose Bremont. They are making their own history within aviation, being chosen by Martin Baker to make a watch to the exacting standards that they put their ejection seats through and being chosen by military aviators who want more than the offer of a squadron crest on a watch. Add to that that fact that their TD (former IWC and Rolex), Peter Roberts, was asked by Breitling and TAG Heuer to review their B-01 and 1887 movements in QP magazine; which shows the people working within the brand.

Complications/movements - do they have revolutionary complications? No, however in the Alt1-C they have a Valjoux 7750 movement modified by Soprod and have COSC-rated movements with modifications to key movement components. Think AMG in the Mercedes engines; why create a movement that may fail in a watch tested to extremes; given that the Alt series of watches fared better than many competitors without being upgraded should also testify to the modifications done, this is surely the correct approach? The movement within the MB2 also has an anti-shock rotor mount as well.

Use of new materials - The cases have always hardened (I believe using kloisterising techniques) by the same company in Cambridgeshire that hardens the Rolls Royce turbine blades, which give them a satin finish that doesn't look like plastic (Damasko and the lower Sinn tegiment models). The higher-spec Sinn watches have a similar finish to them, but given that Sinn part-own SUG (the case makers), this will always keep the costs down, as it will for Damasko who fabricate and harden the cases themselves; The use of the anodised aluminium within the MB2's barrel isn't normal, and came about from the salt fog testing from the MB tests.

Unique styling - what else is styled like it (except for the Solo, but that's been a later model and the brothers even state that it's came from the IWC pilot styling)?

In terms of brands providing hardened cases, Damasko are not the company they once were; they stopped putting top grade movements in their watches over a year ago and many watches are elabore at best. The three-handers are very much worth it, but the insistence on having a minute recorder in a pilots watch without five minute increments shows they don't fly. The in-house movements are noteworthy, but the watches are plain ugly with the red detailing (with blue detailing on the full-lume dial watch and it'd be mine, but white and red?). Costs are kept down within Damasko by going for cheaper movmements and making most of the watches in-house.

Sinn is more interesting, with a range of interesting tech in a very teutonic design. Prices are less than Bremont, but again they aren't watches you'd normally wear with a suit until you get to DiaPal watches and above; that said, top grade movements and many with modifications (75x series) make for a great buy.

For me, Bremont have filled the gap that IWC and Breitling have left with their move to dinner plate watches; the last real IWC watches IMHO were the IWC AT 35xx/37xx series and the Mk XV/3717 pilots watches. As for Omega, they've just now come back to where they were in the 70's, and that has more to do with the brand recognition from Bond and the associated watches than anything else. Many of the Veblen watch brands are rising prices because they can, at least you can see where your money is going with Bremont, who have had much less price increase over the past five years than any other brand in the same price bracket.
Have - quite a few
Want - not too much
highway62

Re: Interesting reaction from another forum

Post by highway62 »

thanks for the informative reply
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Interesting reaction from another forum

Post by bydandie »

highway62 wrote:thanks for the informative reply
You're welcome! :)
Have - quite a few
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