In hindsight...was the Christopher Ward rebrand of 2016 a historic mistake?

nbg · Post by **nbg** » Wed Jul 20, 2022 11:20 pm

Always bemused when someone says that the Sealander looks like an Explorer.

It looks nothing like any Explorer 1 or Explorer 2 that I own.

The GMT version does though look, at a distance, like one of the GS GMT models.

Neil

NationOfLaws · Post by **NationOfLaws** » Wed Jul 20, 2022 11:49 pm

I mean, it’s pretty obvious to me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I’m not alone. Many YouTube reviews, for instance, make direct comparisons or call it an “ode”. They’re more explicit in that connection in the videos.

It’s ok! If you’re going to borrow an aesthetic, do it from one of the most successful brands.

Amor Vincit Omnia · Post by **Amor Vincit Omnia** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:09 am

We were discussing this last year. I found what I wrote then about the Exp II vs. the Black Sealander GMT.

I don’t own a Rolex but I did answer this question on a different forum the other day. Let’s examine the evidence.

Case shape – different.

Black-filled Steel 24 hour bezel – snap.

Hands -totally different (all four except for the orange colour)

Numbers on CW minute track

Indices - bâtons vs blobs

Date at 6 vs cyclops date at 3.

Loupe 22 is very explicit about the influence of the Exp. assuming you’ve read it. But…loose homage at best/worst. Copy? No.

TheBeatles · Post by **TheBeatles** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:32 am

Personally I don’t care.

I prefer the Sealander anyway and not just because I’ve just bought one.

The Explorer II has that awful magnifier which spoils the look of the whole dial.

Check the photo below (I think it’s Jameson’s first one) from one angle you can hardly read the date. Unless head on, then the magnifier is more than useless, it just distorts the date window. And in 2nd pic it’s almost opaque compared with the jet black of dial.

Obviously these are my own views and those on the Forum from the “I hate magnifiers club”

NationOfLaws · Post by **NationOfLaws** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:22 am

This is the classic McDonald’s vs McDowell’s argument from Coming To America.

“Look... me and the McDonald's people got this little misunderstanding. See, they're McDonald's... I'm McDowell's. They got the Golden Arches, mine is the Golden Arcs. They got the Big Mac, I got the Big Mick. We both got two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles and onions, but their buns have sesame seeds. My buns have no seeds.”

It’s the same watch. But to TheBeatles’ point, I don’t care. I own two. My point merely is that it’s weird to dislike the Aquitaine for ripping off Blancpain when other watches In the collection rip off other iconic watches to the same extent

nbg · Post by **nbg** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:34 am

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:09 am We were discussing this last year. I found what I wrote then about the Exp II vs. the Black Sealander GMT.

I don’t own a Rolex but I did answer this question on a different forum the other day. Let’s examine the evidence.

Case shape – different.

Black-filled Steel 24 hour bezel – snap.

Hands -totally different (all four except for the orange colour)

Numbers on CW minute track

Indices - bâtons vs blobs

Date at 6 vs cyclops date at 3.

Loupe 22 is very explicit about the influence of the Exp. assuming you’ve read it. But…loose homage at best/worst. Copy? No.

No, no Steve, it looks just like an Explorer 2. You, like me, need to disregard the evidence of your own eyes. It’s clearly like an Explorer 2, after all that’s what a few random YouTube reviews say!

Neil

NationOfLaws · Post by **NationOfLaws** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:41 am

Guys, come on. It’s ok to admit that it has strong Explorer influences. It’s silly to look at these two watches and say they didn’t take an iconic design and tweak minor things to fit a design language. It doesn’t have a cyclops because no CW watch has a cyclops. It has different (non-numeric, might I add) indices because they better fit CW’s design language. Of course they’re not going to admit in their own magazine that they copied a design. Come on.

This is the silliest homerism I’ve seen in a while.

Amor Vincit Omnia · Post by **Amor Vincit Omnia** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:38 am

OK, this from Loupe 21 (sorry, I quoted the wrong edition). Here’s a link to the edition on the Archive

I think this is basically what I said in my post last year. No one, least of all CW in their own magazine, is denying the strong influence of the Explorer. Any more than they denied the influence of the FF on the design of the Aquitaine. In fact they rather touted it. But as Adrian Buchmann points out, there are enough stylistic differences to make the Sealander its own watch.

I think we’re really saying the same thing, but in a different way. I can’t comment on the similarities or differences between the Aquitaine and the FF because I’ve never seen either one up close.

A1soknownas · Post by **A1soknownas** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:20 am

As written in the quoted article above, at first glance even they recognise that it could look like an Explorer II and it is only when you pay closer attention that the differences become apparent.

They could have done one significant move to make the first glance conclusion different, not use the orange hand.

Like the example earlier, open a fastfood Restaurant and have an N in instead of the famous golden/yellow M and at quick glance most people would think McDonalds. Make it a Blue N and they wouldn't. They wouldn't also have to go inside for a closer look to find out they they sell Nachos and not Burgers

!

JAFO · Post by **JAFO** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:04 am

NationOfLaws wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:22 am This is the classic McDonald’s vs McDowell’s argument from Coming To America.

“Look... me and the McDonald's people got this little misunderstanding. See, they're McDonald's... I'm McDowell's. They got the Golden Arches, mine is the Golden Arcs. They got the Big Mac, I got the Big Mick. We both got two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles and onions, but their buns have sesame seeds. My buns have no seeds.”

It’s the same watch. But to TheBeatles’ point, I don’t care. I own two. My point merely is that it’s weird to dislike the Aquitaine for ripping off Blancpain when other watches In the collection rip off other iconic watches to the same extent

When you think of garbage, think of Akeem! One of my favourite films.

asqwerth · Post by **asqwerth** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:05 am

I don't think that is the point of NationofLaw's point though. He was simply saying that if you dislike Aquitaine because it's inspired by FF, why give Sealander a pass for being inspired by Explorer?

Maybe it ultimately just comes down to the fact that if one likes the look of something, one is more willing to overlook its issues, and the converse is true when one simply does not like the look of something.

Me? I don't like the colour choices/combos of Aquitaine models. There is no zing in the models (for me). Doesn't have anything to do with CW branding, logo, what famous watch it looks like, etc.

NationOfLaws · Post by **NationOfLaws** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:54 am

asqwerth wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:05 am I don't think that is the point of NationofLaw's point though. He was simply saying that if you dislike Aquitaine because it's inspired by FF, why give Sealander a pass for being inspired by Explorer?

Maybe it ultimately just comes down to the fact that if one likes the look of something, one is more willing to overlook its issues, and the converse is true when one simply does not like the look of something.

Me? I don't like the colour choices/combos of Aquitaine models. There is no zing in the models (for me). Doesn't have anything to do with CW branding, logo, what famous watch it looks like, etc.

Exactly what I meant, and a reason I can understand for not liking the Aquitaine

jf72 · Post by **jf72** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:47 pm

NationOfLaws wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:54 am
asqwerth wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:05 am I don't think that is the point of NationofLaw's point though. He was simply saying that if you dislike Aquitaine because it's inspired by FF, why give Sealander a pass for being inspired by Explorer?

Maybe it ultimately just comes down to the fact that if one likes the look of something, one is more willing to overlook its issues, and the converse is true when one simply does not like the look of something.

Me? I don't like the colour choices/combos of Aquitaine models. There is no zing in the models (for me). Doesn't have anything to do with CW branding, logo, what famous watch it looks like, etc.
Exactly what I meant, and a reason I can understand for not liking the Aquitaine

disagreed bud!

ripping off a Rolex is a 'standard' so it's expected and normalised and you can do it without anyone batting an eyelid, as everyone else has done it, but the Fifty Fathoms is a unique watch, so ripping it off can't go unnoticed. i personally thought it was crazy that when they decided to copy the FF they also decided to copy its 15 30 45 bezel when they could've just changed little things like that to keep it looking consistent with other Christopher Ward watches

NationOfLaws · Post by **NationOfLaws** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:24 pm

Baltic has made an entire business out of ripping off Blancpain. I find this arbitrary line people draw about what companies are in and out of bounds to rip off really weird, but whatever. It’s your money, go spend it on a Fifty Fathoms if you want.

golfjunky · Post by **golfjunky** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 2:48 pm

NationOfLaws wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:24 pm Baltic has made an entire business out of ripping off Blancpain. I find this arbitrary line people draw about what companies are in and out of bounds to rip off really weird, but whatever. It’s your money, go spend it on a Fifty Fathoms if you want.

But i think some companies like them started out making homages/copies/rip off etc therefore it is expected and accepted. CW are getting heat because they are trying to tread the line of being original and that horrid word, Edgy!

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