How to tell a C4 Peregrine from a Phoenix

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How to tell a C4 Peregrine from a Phoenix

Post by andybarry87 »

Hopefully an easy question, how can you tell a C4 Peregrine from a Phoenix when you don’t have any of the original documents. Background to this is that a friend liked my C4 and wanted one for himself, he picked one up from eBay but it was without the box and papers so no clue on age. Is there a rough guide of serial numbers that would indicate whether it was from the original release or second release (it’s not an original original as for that I know to look out for Swiss movement vs Swiss made)
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Re: How to tell a C4 Peregrine from a Phoenix

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

Easy enough although serial numbers are a lottery on early CW models.

From the CWArchive

"In June 2015 a limited run of 200 pieces was released in the the SK (black dial) variant.

A cache of extra cases was found and new dials were made per the original model run with the original logo. These were sold at the original 2006 prices. Although original dials were reproduced, they do say Swiss Made and not Swiss Mov't. This model run was quickly dubbed the "Phoenix" by CW Forum members."


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Re: How to tell a C4 Peregrine from a Phoenix

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

Bahnstormer_vRS wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:54 pm PS> A Phoenix is a C4 Peregrine. :wink: :wink:
Guy’s personal Phoenix is known as Fawkes.
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Re: How to tell a C4 Peregrine from a Phoenix

Post by andybarry87 »

Thanks Guy,

I knew that Phoenix was just the name used to describe those extra 200, but what I hadn’t know was that all the original C4s said Swiss Movement and only the re-releases said Swiss Made (if I read that extract correctly?). So if his says Swiss Made it’s one of those re-releases?

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Re: How to tell a C4 Peregrine from a Phoenix

Post by Renton »

One way to tell is by the strap.

The 'original' C4s had either twin pin straps like this:
Image

Or 'fitted end' straps like this:
Image

And some had Bader deployant clasps.


Whereas the Phoenix ones had universal textured black leather tang straps and looked like this:
Image
Image

I can't remember seeing any Phoenix ones on bracelets (others might correct me on that), so a bracelet could be an indicator that it's an earlier one?
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Re: How to tell a C4 Peregrine from a Phoenix

Post by Renton »

andybarry87 wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:04 pm Thanks Guy,

I knew that Phoenix was just the name used to describe those extra 200, but what I hadn’t know was that all the original C4s said Swiss Movement and only the re-releases said Swiss Made (if I read that extract correctly?). So if his says Swiss Made it’s one of those re-releases?

Andy
No, SWISS MOVT just means it's a VERY early one, circa 2006/2007 I think
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Re: How to tell a C4 Peregrine from a Phoenix

Post by andybarry87 »

Well that probably narrows it down then to being an original but later edition Peregrine. I’ve asked him for some photos but from what I remember his was Swiss Made but also on a metal bracelet.

Thanks everyone!
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Re: How to tell a C4 Peregrine from a Phoenix

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

Renton wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:06 pm
andybarry87 wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:04 pm Thanks Guy,

I knew that Phoenix was just the name used to describe those extra 200, but what I hadn’t know was that all the original C4s said Swiss Movement and only the re-releases said Swiss Made (if I read that extract correctly?). So if his says Swiss Made it’s one of those re-releases?

Andy
No, SWISS MOVT just means it's a VERY early one, circa 2006/2007 I think
You might well be right on that Dan and I follow your train of thought; unless all the dials for the Black C4s, even those sold up to the retirement date of 2011, were produced in one batch and printed 'Swiss Movt'.

I'm not sure we'll ever get an answer to this though. :-k :-k

Good photos on the straps by the way. :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Re: How to tell a C4 Peregrine from a Phoenix

Post by Renton »

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Re: How to tell a C4 Peregrine from a Phoenix

Post by Kip »

C4 Peregrine
Original release date August 2006 (Dials states Swiss Mov't)
Swiss made began August 2008 (Dials state Swiss Made).
C4 retirement date - June 2011
Rise of the C4 Phoenix (200 pieces) June 2015 Serial numbers were continued in order for the final 200. (unfortunately, CW does not release serial numbers, so no way to tell this way)

Original straps came with a butterfly deployant, not a clasp.
Straps were mostly fitted, but not all.
The butterfly deployant was discontinued around about Sept. 2011 and straps began coming with clasps.
CW rebranded in Sept. 2011, but original logo clasps were used up until gone at least through Feb. 2012
All movements were ISA 8174-220 so that won't help.

About the only way to tell is, and it is still a guessing game if strap/bracelets have been changed, if original or "Phoenix" is if the watch has the original strap and it has the V2 logo on the clasp or if the watch has an original bracelet it is probably the original C4.
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Re: How to tell a C4 Peregrine from a Phoenix

Post by Renton »

Thanks Kip, always nice to brush up on the small details :thumbup:
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Re: How to tell a C4 Peregrine from a Phoenix

Post by ArtfulRoger »

Just going through the archive and love the look of the Phoenix. Why did it change from Peregrine to Phoenix, simply cause it heralded a come back (from the flames)?
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Re: How to tell a C4 Peregrine from a Phoenix

Post by andybarry87 »

ArtfulRoger wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:13 pm Just going through the archive and love the look of the Phoenix. Why did it change from Peregrine to Phoenix, simply cause it heralded a come back (from the flames)?
Correct, this is taken from the archives:

“In June 2015 a limited run of 200 pieces was released in the the SK (black dial) variant.

A cache of extra cases was found and new dials were made per the original model run with the original logo. These were sold at the original 2006 prices. Although original dials were reproduced, they do say Swiss Made and not Swiss Mov't. This model run was quickly dubbed the "Phoenix" by CW Forum members.”

Archive link:

https://cwarchive.knack.com/cwarchive#m ... fda61e7db/
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Re: How to tell a C4 Peregrine from a Phoenix

Post by ArtfulRoger »

Phoenix is a cool nickname for the relaunched variant.
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Re: How to tell a C4 Peregrine from a Phoenix

Post by Bahnstormer_vRS »

ArtfulRoger wrote:Phoenix is a cool nickname for the relaunched variant.
Pretty flaming obvious, if you ask me.

I wonder who thought of it.

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