Hi. This might seem an odd /rookie question but how much pressure does it take to wind a Trident Elite 1000 diver watch with the crown? I let mine run down and stop and planned to give it 20 turns when I picked it up again. However, the crown was noticeably stiff and I didn't want to force it, so I relied on wrist movement alone, using a 'card dealing' movement. (I assume it takes quite a bit of time to wind the watch this way from stopped). I only have a couple of old manual watches to compare against and this was definitely much more resistant to being wound. Previously when it has resisted winding, I just assumed it was about fully wound. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Richard.

First some general info:

You can't overwind an automatic. There is usually very little difference between the resistance felt when winding from 0 reserve to when it is topped up. Automatics are designed so that the mainspring slips when it is fully wound. You can sometimes hear and feel the click.

My ETAs and Sallitas have just enough resistance to feel like you are doing something when turning the crown. This is different from watches that I own with a Miyota that feels like I am turning nothing when winding the crown. I am only stating this to say that you should feel something but not much if that makes sense. It should also be smooth not chunky feeling or stuttery.

Now explicitly to your question - There shouldn't be resistance in the turn. Can you hear/feel the rotor spin when you turn the crown? If so you have an issue with the reversing wheels in the autowinder. This is a pretty common issue that comes up with Sallitas. Sometimes it goes away on its own and sometimes it requires some service.

The only downside to the shuffle (there is no wrong way to wind up a watch if you ask me) is that usually the worst time keeping is at the lower end of the power reserve. So if you use the shuffle the time keeping might not be the best because it will take around 1100-1300 full turns of the rotor to top up the reserve. Not a huge deal in the grand scheme but still worth knowing.

Honestly, I'd have replied yesterday, honestly I think you'd have had more replies but it's hard to know exactly what you're feeling when you report the crown being stiff: how stiff is stiff? It shouldn't be stiff but there is bound to be some resistance because you are winding a spring.

You aren't fighting against a screw-down crown presumably?

Your winding technique - card dealing - ever played table football? Take the watch off, hold it in the palm of your hand and give it plenty like you're rattling a collecting tin: you can't hurt it.

tikkathree wrote:
You aren't fighting against a screw-down crown presumably?

How stiff is stiff?

Not wishing to teach Grandmother to suck eggs, but you have unscrewed the screw down crown (anticlockwise) before trying to wind the watch. Haven't you?

Thereafter the movement for your Trident Elite 1000 should be reasonably smooth to wind, without any great torque being needed.

Guy


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Hi, thanks for the replies. Yes I did unscrew the crown (and adjust the time) so it's definitely not that, I'm glad to say. I appreciate that it is difficult to define how stiff it is without being able to say 'here you try' but from what has been said it sounds like it is stiffer than it should be. It is stiff enough that I feel that I don't want to force it and risk breaking something, which means I am not really turning the crown at all. Looking at the movement when I try to turn the crown it starts to move the rotor. Should I try a bit more force, or phone customer service in the morning? I don't want to send it back and then be told there is nothing wrong and I just need to try harder, but I don't want to break something either. Thanks, Rich.

Hold the watch dial up but at a 45 degree angle away from you. Just so that the dial isn't straight up and down or entirely flat. Give it a wind. It will be okay to apply a little force. If you feel the rotor spin like a mad man then you having a reversing wheel problem (called spinning rotor syndrome). Sometimes holding the watch at an angle while winding it will be enough to get the wheels moving correctly. If not then CW customer service is the way to go. The reversing wheels need cleaning and re-lubricated.

Tricky17 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 8:13 pm Hi, thanks for the replies. Yes I did unscrew the crown (and adjust the time) so it's definitely not that, I'm glad to say. I appreciate that it is difficult to define how stiff it is without being able to say 'here you try' but from what has been said it sounds like it is stiffer than it should be. It is stiff enough that I feel that I don't want to force it and risk breaking something, which means I am not really turning the crown at all. Looking at the movement when I try to turn the crown it starts to move the rotor. Should I try a bit more force, or phone customer service in the morning? I don't want to send it back and then be told there is nothing wrong and I just need to try harder, but I don't want to break something either. Thanks, Rich.

Sadly that does sound like the Sellita SW200-1 issue that occurs occasionally whereby the reverse gears stick and the rotor starts spinning when you wind the crown.
Contact CW CS and get them to sort it for you.

Hi. I have to say that the knowledge and advice on this forum is amazing. As suggested, I held the watch at 45 degrees, with a shaving/makeup mirror behind so I could see the movement, and gave it a wind. Sure enough the rotor spun round exactly as predicted, then it stopped spinning and the torque required reduced noticeably. I did the same again this morning and it is fine. So a huge thanks for that. One final question though, should I still contact CS about getting it looked at? Thanks again, Richard.

It's always a good idea to contact customer service, that way CW can note potential troubles with a batch of movements and you have a record of the issue in case you have problems in the future.

Leon O wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 2:06 pm It's always a good idea to contact customer service, that way CW can note potential troubles with a batch of movements and you have a record of the issue in case you have problems in the future.

I concur with that.

Good to hear it seems to be working okay for now.

Guy

I am going to be a little contrary here and say wait. They are just going to tell you to open a ticket and send it in for them to look at it. In my experience with this issue it may never come back. Keep winding it using the tilted method. If the rotor spin comes back contact them and send it in.

Personally , i think you should always be gentle when winding a mechanical movement and always count the turns(At least that's what I do) just so you you know when it's fully wound and also if you know when you're getting close to the maximum turns you could just pay more attention or don;t hit the limit. I hope that makes sense.

dulamea wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 12:02 am Personally , i think you should always be gentle when winding a mechanical movement and always count the turns(At least that's what I do) just so you you know when it's fully wound and also if you know when you're getting close to the maximum turns you could just pay more attention or don;t hit the limit. I hope that makes sense.

In general this is good but automatics don't have a limit. The mainspring is designed to 'slip' when it is fully wound. Otherwise the automatic winding would damage the movement when it was fully wound (the winding works doesn't stop winding even when full).

I don't generally top up my automatics either. I put in about 50% and let nature to the rest. For the SW200 and ETA 2824 that is about 20 turns. Other movements vary.