First ever CW - disappointed, surprised

Discuss Christopher Ward watches
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flashman
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Re: First ever CW - disappointed, surprised

Post by flashman »

We must consider that we are looking at history being made on a daily basis and we are part of that history. No one has tried this before and we should remember that.[/quote]

Really? Are you sure about this? Tried what, exactly :? ? I think that if we're talking about watches that try to be better quality for a lower price there are several fair comparisons, some of which have been recent topics on the forum; Zeppelin, Junkers, Reidenschild to name only three. Yes, they're a bit more expensive than CWL, but not much in most comparative examples. It's this sort of statement that I can't get my head around, as it is not supported by the facts. If this was true, that nobody has tried this before, CWL would effectively not have any business competition and that is clearly not the case; ask him if you doubt it. There are definitely other competitively priced, good watches out there for sure.
That said, a lot of the comments in the thread are bang on; the company is getting "too big too fast" in a way and are therefore victims of their own success (common in business generally), quality is an issue, and we do have a responsibility to post common sense observations on the forum. It's always difficult to criticise something you don't really want to, but we have to. In fact, we owe it to Chris. There is probably more collective knowledge about CWL watches on this forum than there is anywhere; to an extent, we are in a way, a test bed for the brand.
The way I look at it is this; the brands heart is in the right place. Lately quality may have slipped but that will I believe, be corrected. It is early days and the potential is there for the future. The watches will improve but we have to help them to by being, frankly, critical. Roll on August :) .
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Re: First ever CW - disappointed, surprised

Post by Yoda »

flashman wrote:We must consider that we are looking at history being made on a daily basis and we are part of that history. No one has tried this before and we should remember that.
Really? Are you sure about this? Tried what, exactly :? ? I think that if we're talking about watches that try to be better quality for a lower price there are several fair comparisons, some of which have been recent topics on the forum; Zeppelin, Junkers, Reidenschild to name only three. Yes, they're a bit more expensive than CWL, but not much in most comparative examples. It's this sort of statement that I can't get my head around, as it is not supported by the facts. If this was true, that nobody has tried this before, CWL would effectively not have any business competition and that is clearly not the case; ask him if you doubt it. There are definitely other competitively priced, good watches out there for sure.
That said, a lot of the comments in the thread are bang on; the company is getting "too big too fast" in a way and are therefore victims of their own success (common in business generally), quality is an issue, and we do have a responsibility to post common sense observations on the forum. It's always difficult to criticise something you don't really want to, but we have to. In fact, we owe it to Chris. There is probably more collective knowledge about CWL watches on this forum than there is anywhere; to an extent, we are in a way, a test bed for the brand.
The way I look at it is this; the brands heart is in the right place. Lately quality may have slipped but that will I believe, be corrected. It is early days and the potential is there for the future. The watches will improve but we have to help them to by being, frankly, critical. Roll on August :) .[/quote]

I admit that I do not know of whom started this type of business off but I pretty sure I know who is more sucessful. Yes there are others, why question me on that? There are also manufactureers who have changed their business plan to sell on the internet The fact is that CW have more range than the others and a better business setup. Like all companies they have responded to a surge of orders and that has caused a problem.

Some of the critism has been unfair and I have read almost every single entry since the beginning of June, expecting that there would be some problems. We do not 'owe it to Chris' to critise his Companies work. it is to the individual who has a complaint, to direct it initially to the company and report the outcome on the forum if he wishes. Most have come straight onto the forum and complained first and even about things that are completely out of the hands of Christopher Ward, London. This is the reason, I noted above, that the relationship between the seller and the buyer are very different in this case.
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Re: First ever CW - disappointed, surprised

Post by v_roomy »

Yoda wrote:it is to the individual who has a complaint, to direct it initially to the company and report the outcome on the forum if he wishes. Most have come straight onto the forum and complained first and even about things that are completely out of the hands of Christopher Ward, London.
Again, I hope that isn't how my own comments have been interpreted by those here. I have no complaint about CWL or the watches. Just observations on the watch I bought and how it compares with others I own. If I've given the impression I'm complaining, that wasn't the intention.

One last time, for the record, I applaud CWL, and - despite some evident growing pains - I think there's a lot they're doing right.

Cheers

Mike
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Re: First ever CW - disappointed, surprised

Post by Martin5 »

Hi all,

First post and a recent owner of a C5AKS. I've enjoyed this thread as I think it has captured my feelings and some others that have been posted here over the last few weeks. I've also got a personal interest in the topic as I am a Quality Manager for a major motor manufacturer, so I know exactly how hard it is to balance volume sales and quality. I agree with the conclusion that this is growing pains, but I wouldn't hang my hat on the new 'Swiss Made' watches being any different. Regional perceptions of quality or manufacturing ability are largely stereotypes and meaningless ( IMO based on working in Japan and all round Europe ), you can get good and bad quality anywhere.

To be constructive, I'd say that first of all CWL need to drop the spin about being a small company, everything being personally checked and signed by Chris etc... From the numbers of watches this can no longer be true, so don't build up unrealistic expectations. Second, work out a watertight quality system from Design through to Manufacture and finally testing. And learn from your mistakes by building it back into the process. I know most of the faults are relatively minor, and by the sounds of it we forum members seem to be a picky bunch, but these are also the people who will go out and evangelise about CWL to their friends - if they have that special feel. I really like the ethos of CWL so would like it to do well, but there is work to do to deliver big name quality for fair prices.
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Re: First ever CW - disappointed, surprised

Post by CFK-OB »

Yoda, I appreciate that you are defending CWL. I think it is obvious that most people here want to see Chris succeed - you are not alone in that. However, you must remember that this is a forum, which means it is a place for discussion. Many of the points that are made here are not appropriate for making directly to CWL. For instance, one of my issues with the LE is the quality of the clasp on the rubber strap and the fact that it doesn't have a divers extension. What am I going to gain by ringing CWL and saying I don't like it. It is what it is and I can't change that.

But we all know that Chris reads this forum and we also know that he listens to the feedback he gets. Therefore I think that it is important for both us and Chris that there is a place where everyones point of view can be heard so that Chris gets a better idea of what is good and not so good. I really wouldn't like everyone who has an issue with something to be e-mailing or ringing Chris, espeically if it is not a fault but rather a design feature / issue. These discussions will only help the company to get better in the future.

The overall feeling I get, despite a number of the recent threads being less positive, is that people want to support what the company is doing. I know I do. I have many issues with the LE, but it's still sitting on my wrist this morning because despite these, it is still a wonderful watch at excellent value. But maybe the next generation of watches will take on board what is being said here and improve over what is already a very good product.
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Re: First ever CW - disappointed, surprised

Post by CFK-OB »

Hi Martin and welcome to the forum. From my own perspective I don't believe that simply by switching to manufacturing the watches in Switzerland, CWL will automatically have a better product. I think I'm more hoping that because CWL are making this move, it is an indication that they are preparing to up the quality of the product to fit in with the Swss made tag. In other words, I hope that it is more of a philosophy rather than a marketing move.
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Re: First ever CW - disappointed, surprised

Post by karma mechanic »

From what I've seen reported on here many of the problems seem to involve the final prepping of the watches for delivery. Bracelets with marks, cosmetic problems which should have been spotted, strap pins which are not seated, misalignment of hands and so on. Manufacturing in Switzerland won't necessarily change that at all, the problems could be down to one poorly trained member of staff.

I emailed Chris on the 18th with my concerns (mainly to try and find out the status of my Aviator) but no reply as yet. The much-promised call back from Head Office never occurred either. I'm still in favour of the concept of what Chris is doing, but the execution of it seems to have derailed a bit of late. I really hope that he can straighten out these problems because they are damaging the brand IMHO.
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Re: First ever CW - disappointed, surprised

Post by Russ-Shettle »

Can you imagine how many emails Chris must get each day? Having to wait is something modern man has lost all patients for. The 60/60 warranty is truly the best thing you've got with this company and I think that says a lot for the product.

Russ
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Re: First ever CW - disappointed, surprised

Post by Daz »

:)
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Re: First ever CW - disappointed, surprised

Post by Rick »

Chris!! Give Martin 5 a job!!!! Sorted :D
C5AKS - C7 Rapide - C4IPK - C6T3 - C6 Forum LE - W6 Splash - C8SWT - C70 DBR1
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Re: First ever CW - disappointed, surprised

Post by Kip »

Exceptional series of posts gentlemen. I will only add my 2 cents and say that I agree that constructive criticism is what is needed and should be continued as long as the good stuff keeps getting said also.
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Re: First ever CW - disappointed, surprised

Post by Russ-Shettle »

I agree Kip and in regard to quality control: If Chris has a real problem with QC he must know about by now and for sure. We, on this super forum, are a mere fraction of those who have purchased from CW. There are only a few of us who actually participate on this forum and fewer still who are regulars. Chris has sold thousands by now. Surely, if a serious QC problem were taking place he knows about it without the help from us. The question is then; how do you want to deal with it? CW's 60/60 policy will guarantee your satisfaction and that's the bottom line.

Russ
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Re: First ever CW - disappointed, surprised

Post by Kip »

Sorry Martin, I am stiill under the influence of drugs. Welcome to the "Asylum" and thanks for your insightful comments. I hope we will be hearing much more from you.

Russ...Chris usually catches up on the forum on Sundays, so I am sure he is aware of what has been going on. I don't think I would have wanted to be around him today.
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Re: First ever CW - disappointed, surprised

Post by Yoda »

Kip wrote:Sorry Martin, I am stiill under the influence of drugs. Welcome to the "Asylum" and thanks for your insightful comments. I hope we will be hearing much more from you.

Russ...Chris usually catches up on the forum on Sundays, so I am sure he is aware of what has been going on. I don't think I would have wanted to be around him today.
I'm rather inclined to agree with you. This month must have been a very tough time for the company.
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Re: First ever CW - disappointed, surprised

Post by Daz »

:(
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