cwl, time for better lume.

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Lewis
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Re: cwl, time for better lume.

Post by Lewis »

holyk wrote:
Lewis wrote:Holyk I hear what you are saying but time after time I hear how steinhart has better lume. Same price point. I like cwl better so I would like cwl to have comparable lume.
A fair point but Steinhart doesn't have CW's customer service, liberal return policy and 5 year movement guarantee, all of which I use more than my lume, and I figure would factor into the cost.

I guess the lume would be considered longer lasting than customer service but I do prefer the latter rather than the former. That's me though and I guess different people have different preferences.
I agree completely and that is why I chose cwl. But that doesn't mean cwl is prefect.
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Re: cwl, time for better lume.

Post by Lewis »

Director65 wrote:What drew me to CWL was the classic look of many of the models. About all I see most of the time are divers...and more divers....and more and more divers. I don't need a diver and find them pretty boring. What I like is that classic timepiece look and a solid mechanical movement under the hood. Lume is pretty much a sales gimmick. I come down on the side of "meh" who really needs it? If one REALLY needs a watch that glows in the dark, then one needs to buy a watch with tritium tubes; then the light will be there for about 20 years and one never needs to "charge" it. I would rather see CWL keep on with classic complications like the mono-pusher and the jumping hour with classic design. Even though they are in the upper price range, they aren't anywhere NEAR what others cost. Ok, off my soapbox!!! Gotta go check my lume!!! :wave:
I love classic dress watches as well and I wouldn't expect lume in those watches. But I love all kinds of watches and styles that use lume I feel the lume should be done well. As far as lume being a sales gimmick... Are you kidding? Lume plays a very large part in wrist watch history.
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Re: cwl, time for better lume.

Post by holyk »

Lewis wrote:But that doesn't mean cwl is prefect.
Oh indeed. I agree with that. I'd like some hand winding options for instance as well as more sub-40mm watches but I'm happy with their current offerings as well.
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Re: cwl, time for better lume.

Post by Director65 »

No, Lewis, unfortunately I am NOT kidding...lume is a gimmick that sells watches. Check your watch history. This might help http://www.ablogtowatch.com/what-you-wa ... -luminant/

All I am saying is that it is not horologically significant. Yes, it sells watches, but doesn't really serve much purpose in the overall scheme of timepieces. CWL has those pieces that ARE significant. They make the Tridents because divers seem to be the rage...but the real niche for CWL is in their classical style and the price point of that style. IMHO lume plays a very small part in wrist watch history.
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Re: cwl, time for better lume.

Post by holyk »

Honestly you're both right but are saying same things in different way. What Lewis is trying to get at is that watches that are visible by night is has horological significance which is true as I know that the old WW2 pilot watches had lume paint on them so they were visible in a dark cockpit. However that lume, as director correctly pointed out, was not lume in the form that we know of today but rather composed of radioactive substances and required no charging but would glow until the substance completely decayed. There are still watches that still use such substances such as marathon and some homages of the GG-W-113s. The radiation is low enough however that there's no risk of radioactive poisoning. Also you'll notice that in the Vietnam GG-W-113, there's a line at the case back that saying "disposable radioactive waste". The SL paint that modern watches use however is completely different.

So in summary, night visible watches horologically significant, SuperLuminova not.

The Smiths W-10 illustrates this quite well I think. Below is the original Smiths W-10. You'll notice a T on the dial which stands for tritium.
Image

Now behold the remake by Timefactors. It has an L on the dial which stands for Luminova.

Image

These are amazing watches btw and one day I shall have them!
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Re: cwl, time for better lume.

Post by holyk »

Finally, SL faces off with tritium tubes!!!

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f2/tritium ... 35726.html
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Re: cwl, time for better lume.

Post by lloyd_m »

It really depends what you want out of a watch. As somebody who worked nights for many years I found the Tritium tubes in my Traser essential. But if you are wearing a dress watch it is not necessary, hence the reason for having more than one piece in my collection. For years I managed with the Traser for work and the C5 for posh (that was until I really got the bug and started spending silly money).
I did email Chris a year or so back asking if there was any plans to use Tritium in any of his watches (I believe the C600 had it) and he said that he was considering adding it to some of the C11 range.
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Re: cwl, time for better lume.

Post by quaman26 »

holyk wrote:Honestly you're both right but are saying same things in different way. What Lewis is trying to get at is that watches that are visible by night is has horological significance which is true as I know that the old WW2 pilot watches had lume paint on them so they were visible in a dark cockpit. However that lume, as director correctly pointed out, was not lume in the form that we know of today but rather composed of radioactive substances and required no charging but would glow until the substance completely decayed. There are still watches that still use such substances such as marathon and some homages of the GG-W-113s. The radiation is low enough however that there's no risk of radioactive poisoning. Also you'll notice that in the Vietnam GG-W-113, there's a line at the case back that saying "disposable radioactive waste". The SL paint that modern watches use however is completely different.

So in summary, night visible watches horologically significant, SuperLuminova not.

The Smiths W-10 illustrates this quite well I think. Below is the original Smiths W-10. You'll notice a T on the dial which stands for tritium.
Image

Now behold the remake by Timefactors. It has an L on the dial which stands for Luminova.

Image

These are amazing watches btw and one day I shall have them!


Wow, those Smiths watches are really nice.
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Re: cwl, time for better lume.

Post by Lewis »

Director65 wrote:No, Lewis, unfortunately I am NOT kidding...lume is a gimmick that sells watches. Check your watch history. This might help http://www.ablogtowatch.com/what-you-wa ... -luminant/

All I am saying is that it is not horologically significant. Yes, it sells watches, but doesn't really serve much purpose in the overall scheme of timepieces. CWL has those pieces that ARE significant. They make the Tridents because divers seem to be the rage...but the real niche for CWL is in their classical style and the price point of that style. IMHO lume plays a very small part in wrist watch history.
Ok well I checked my watch history and I guess i'm still missing something. The short history of lume is: lume was originally applied to watches to enhance the usability of the watches by both the public and was very important to be used by the military. Later the radium girls finally proved that a new material was needed to make the watches glow after all the horrible Heath issues they suffered were finally brought to light (haha get it). Now we have nontoxic paints like superluminova. Yes lume is now a sales gimmick because I could look at my phone for time at night. But with that logic watches in general are sales gimmicks because I could always look at my phone for the time with the added benefit of being accurate no matter where in the world I am. All i'm desiring is that a watch that is intended to have lume, whether someone personally likes lume or not, is done well and to a suitable standard for that style watch. I feel cwl has fallen short of this standard on their lume watches.
Lewis

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Re: cwl, time for better lume.

Post by Lewis »

... Oh, and yes I agree that the blog to watch author failed miserably to tie in the history of lume use in the military, making lume seem like a gimmick to sell watches to the general public. But why would that really make a difference? are enhancements to products only worthy if they weren't designed for public use? Or perhaps I misunderstand what a sales gimmick is. My understanding is that a sales or marketing gimmick is something that greatly increases the perceived value of a good or service with little or no real measurable increase in value to that item. For example, a movie start wearing a watch in no way makes that watch more valuable. however I feel that if that watch is good enough for that star it must be good enough for me, thus increasing my perceived value of said watch. The use of the movie start is a marketing gimmick. Lume, as far as manufacturing, increases the value of appropriate style watches as well as the increased value of increased usability of that watch. The addition of lume in this case is a real value, not just a gimmick. Should lume be added to a watch style that is not appropriate for lume, ex classic dress watch, and then highlighted as an extraordinary feature, that would be a sales gimmick. In the end that lume is damaging the usability value of that watch, even though there is a slight manufacturing value increase. Classic dress watches should be very subtle, due to the extreme rudeness of openly checking or bringing attention to the time at a formal event. lume on a classic dress watch would bring attention to the time on your behalf at a formal event, thus lowering your personal value in the eyes of others for a lack of social etiquette. If a watch is lowering my personal value, the value of that watch goes down also. Well that's my logic. Am I wrong?
Lewis

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Karl Falk Automatik black dial
C60 Trident Black bezel mk1 2nd gen logo (warranty swapped out my original charcoal bezel)
Seiko New Gen Orange Monster
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Re: cwl, time for better lume.

Post by Aifo »

Lume does matter, to me at least, especially when you have a box of divers and in midnight, when you turn off the lights, they are like stars on the table! Very fascinating indeed.

Honestly I didn't ever need lume to tell time in the night, to me its lesser a practical feature, but an important decorative element.

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Re: cwl, time for better lume.

Post by holyk »

It's up to you what you value on a watch. Director was just giving his opinion on your comment on horological significance. If enough people stop buying C60s/C61s based on its lume I think CW would take heed but as it is, it seems that most people are quite content with their offerings. Also there are other watches that have fantastic lume so there's that. The Seiko monster uses Lumbrite which is equivalent to C3.

Again if you really want better lume, there's MotorCity Watch Works which will relume your watch for you. They do a really good job.
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Re: cwl, time for better lume.

Post by ctkjjk »

+1 on vote for better lime, if it will not impact cost significantly. CW has beautiful watches but some of the tool watches, like C 60, should have higher standard. Reasonable expectation, for any quality product. Personally there is so much to like about my C60 I would not return for just lume, but why not upgrade?


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Re: cwl, time for better lume.

Post by ctkjjk »

That's better LUME

Apologies, I would not want others to think I was talking about Lime with new green version coming out!


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Re: cwl, time for better lume.

Post by asqwerth »

I don't need lume on every single watch, but if a watch has lume, surely it should work well.

By "well", I mean it should charge fairly quickly and last a respectable amount of time. The lume doesn't need to shine almost as brightly as a torchlight, but it should be enough that you can read the time on your watch in the dark for some time.

On that basis, I find the lume on my Tridents ok for my own use (charges quite fast outdoors and even under my office fluorescent lights, not bright but lasts pretty long), but then I only contend at most with darkened rooms that are not 100% devoid of light.

For someone who is diving, maybe the Trident's lume isn't good enough? I don't know.

I do love the tritium tubes on my Ball EH. They don't shine very brightly, but obviously they are "on" all the time.
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