CW Slogan (with apologies to Mike F)

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Re: CW Slogan (with apologies to Mike F)

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

welshlad wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 1:19 pm The slogan is Ingeniously English. Unsurprisingly Swiss.

Yet the "English" part seems to get interpreted as "British":

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 6:39 am British company building in Switzerland. Simple.
Kip wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 11:31 am but simply says British designed watches- Built in Switzerland.
I mean this as absolutely no criticism of the posters above, including my esteemed Admin Team colleagues, as that is the interpretation I generally would expect from people in England or from outside the UK. England and Britain become conflated.
I apologise if that’s the way it came over, Steve, but allow me to explain my thinking. To my mind Christopher Ward is a British company because they are based in the UK. anOrdain is a British Company for the same reason, and will continue to be so in my mind until such time as Scotland is no longer a part of the UK.

I may use the term British to describe citizens of the UK, but I will never refer to them as English unless I mean very specifically people from England.

In football and rugby, of course, it’s a whole different ball game (if you’ll pardon the pun).
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Re: CW Slogan (with apologies to Mike F)

Post by nordwulf »

Great Britain, United Kingdom and England probably is the same thing to most people outside your country. Or is it countries? It was the same for me for a long time. Scotland is just a region in the north of England and Wales, well nobody really knows about Wales. And Northern Ireland is just an area in Ireland with some unruly neighbors.
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Re: CW Slogan (with apologies to Mike F)

Post by welshlad »

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 3:02 pm I apologise if that’s the way it came over, Steve, but allow me to explain my thinking. To my mind Christopher Ward is a British company because they are based in the UK. anOrdain is a British Company for the same reason, and will continue to be so in my mind until such time as Scotland is no longer a part of the UK.
Absolutely no apology needed, Steve. The point I'm making is that nearly everyone in England and outside the UK subliminally regards English and British as being equivalent, as per Frank's comments. But those in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland don't. So why risk alienating them when the message CW is effectively telling everyone else is that they are a British brand. They may as well explicitly say British rather than English then, so that they gain wider benefit with very little downside.

I should point out that this is probably all a bit more subtle than it may come across. I've certainly not been alienated by CW. But it is a needless minor irritant in my view.
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Re: CW Slogan (with apologies to Mike F)

Post by jkbarnes »

welshlad wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 4:36 pm The point I'm making is that nearly everyone in England and outside the UK subliminally regards English and British as being equivalent, as per Frank's comments.
nordwulf wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 4:20 pm Great Britain, United Kingdom and England probably is the same thing to most people outside your country. Or is it countries? It was the same for me for a long time.
My thinking mirrored Frank’s until I was properly educated about the nature of things in the UK by an English coworker. Her comment that started the conversation, “I wasn’t British until I moved to the US.”
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Re: CW Slogan (with apologies to Mike F)

Post by nbg »

I would say that it is a bit of a generalisation that people born in Scotland or Wales regard themselves as Scottish or Welsh, rather than British.

My wife was born in Scotland, her father and all previous generations were born in Scotland. She regards herself as British.

One of my son-in-laws was born in and other than when at university, has always lived in Wales. He regards himself as British.

Actually on reflection both him and our daughter probably just regard themselves as European.

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Re: CW Slogan (with apologies to Mike F)

Post by welshlad »

Thanks Neil. I suppose what people regard themselves as is a slightly different question. I regard myself as any of Valleys Boy, South Walian, Welsh, British, European or Earthling, depending on the context. :) Perhaps even honorary Yorkshireman if I think I can get away with it.

My point is more that I think it is generally true that those who have spent time living in parts of the UK that aren't England generally don't automatically synonymise English with British.

I'm also aware that there ought to be far more to this thread than the "English vs British" aspect, so I don't want to take things too far down that alley! :oops:
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Re: CW Slogan (with apologies to Mike F)

Post by nbg »

^^^ Steve the good thing from my perspective with the Wales and Scotland born family contingent is that I can happily switch sporting allegiance in Rugby when England are below par. :)

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Re: CW Slogan (with apologies to Mike F)

Post by Amor Vincit Omnia »

nbg wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 6:16 pm ^^^ Steve the good thing from my perspective with the Wales and Scotland born family contingent is that I can happily switch sporting allegiance in Rugby when England are below par. :)

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There is a difference, though, Neil. As a neutral in something like the autumn internationals or World Cup I would be sticking up for Scotland, Wales or Ireland against the likes of Australia, South Africa, and New Zealand. A lot of my Scottish friends would be adamant that they would be rooting for whomever England were playing against. I suspect there are similar feelings in Wales and Ireland.
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Re: CW Slogan (with apologies to Mike F)

Post by A1soknownas »

I don't mind the slogan as it seems to be able to communicate something quite succinctly and is memorable.

When was it first referred to, was it the Sapphire release? The first iteration of the advert had the voiceover with the very English (in my opinion, over the top) accent. The voiceover was then changed, I'm not sure why. The slogan particularly fit with the first ad. It also has to say English as the twin flags logo is the English flag. To change that to British would mean changing so much more than the slogan.

I think there are different feelings and assumed connotations to both the terms English and British (and misunderstandings of the terms altogether), particularly based upon location.

I can see how it may alienate some but from the signals I pick up from CW it seems like they are increasingly looking to international sales rather than the UK so as long as the slogan works for the majority in terms of marketing impact, that is all that will matter.
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Re: CW Slogan (with apologies to Mike F)

Post by welshlad »

A1soknownas wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 7:02 pm It also has to say English as the twin flags logo is the English flag. To change that to British would mean changing so much more than the slogan.
That's a very good point, I'd forgotten about that.

I may have to sell all my CW watches with the twin flags on now. :lol:
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Re: CW Slogan (with apologies to Mike F)

Post by exHowfener »

it would be stronger to position CW as a British brand rather than an English one.
I get that people are annoyed by the terms "English" and "British" being used as though they are the same thing, but why is it that being called a British brand would be stronger? If a company was set up in Swansea, by three Cymry, would it really be objectionable to describe it as a Welsh company? I wouldn't bat an eyelid.
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Re: CW Slogan (with apologies to Mike F)

Post by Richard D »

Not to confuse things but aren’t some of the CW cases and watch boxes made in China? Or am I mistaken. Certainly some of my CW straps were made in Italy. If so, the slogan needs to be rewritten. Lol.
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Re: CW Slogan (with apologies to Mike F)

Post by exHowfener »

^^^ I'm nowhere near an authority on watches but the only company I've come across who detail the origins of the component parts of their watches is Ollech & Wajs.
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Re: CW Slogan (with apologies to Mike F)

Post by welshlad »

exHowfener wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 8:18 pm
it would be stronger to position CW as a British brand rather than an English one.
I get that people are annoyed by the terms "English" and "British" being used as though they are the same thing, but why is it that being called a British brand would be stronger? If a company was set up in Swansea, by three Cymry, would it really be objectionable to describe it as a Welsh company? I wouldn't bat an eyelid.
I don't mean that British is better than English per se - it just risks irritating fewer people, given that people outside the UK read "English" as "British" anyway.

In your example of a Welsh company, if it promoted itself as a Welsh company there aren't so many people who synonymise Welsh with British - clearly the rest of the UK would regard something Welsh as also British (as per AVO's comment), but outside of the UK most of the world doesn't know where Wales is! :) See Frank's comments earlier. As a Welsh company, if you wanted to be internationally known for where you are based, you'd probably be better off promoting yourself as a British company than a Welsh one. (Unless the whole raison d'etre of your company is Welshness, of course, e.g. Penderyn Welsh Whisky.)

Anyway, the twin flags issue means CW has to stay marketed as English anyway, so the fudge will also have to remain. I'll live. :)
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Re: CW Slogan (with apologies to Mike F)

Post by iain »

What nationality we identify ourselves as will be different for different people.

If we start to define everything from this collection of small islands as British though, we’d lose the ability to use that standard unit of measurement “An area the size of Wales”. I’m not sure “An area the size of a part of Britain” would work......
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