peterh wrote:moan here about him per'aps not doing too well

I wasn't moaning, I was speculating. Respect your youngers.

Thanks for the information Peter,explains a lot.
Your English is very good to,better then my English and i'm English

I confronted the guy from the website with the postings on this forum.
He says he'll let Chris himself explain this situation.

I think we're all curious about Chris's view on this matter.



Being continued......

John wrote:I confronted the guy from the website with the postings on this forum.
He says he'll let Chris himself explain this situation.

I think we're all curious about Chris's view on this matter.



Being continued......

Chris does not want to post on here, for understandable, if not obvious, reasons.
He explained his view on the situation in a telephone conversation. This has been transcribed in my previous post. If you want it from The Guy Himself, my suggestion would be to email him.

To put it mildly, I find it somewhat elusive of "the guy from the web site" (a Mr. B. van Westrenen, who has a habit of being inactive... see http://www.laroyale.nl/) refuses to comment, and decides to leave it up to the owner of the brand name whose domain name he's just claimed -- without conferring with the owner of the brand name.

To put it a bit less mildly, I think this stinks.

peter

I hope Chris nails this guy to a wall. The guy stole his pictures!

Exceptional post Peter, IMO.

peterh wrote:I would applaud it if CWL could strike up a deal with a respectable operation any day.

I don't know what CW's margins are but I don't think it would be possible. As an "e-shop" owner I have to say if I end up with a measly £5 profit after selling a watch I'm not going to be happy. Also, having two websites in the same language selling the same watch is like having two ADs next to each other both with big signs advertising the same watches. The cheaper one will win every time. How much profit could CW possible make anyway? Unless all our watches are steel plated copper there's no way he's making anything more than £40 on a £180 watch AFAIK.




JMO.

President wrote:

peterh wrote:I would applaud it if CWL could strike up a deal with a respectable operation any day.

I don't know what CW's margins are

Approx. 10%, which makes it extremely hard for an Internet operation to act as an agent.

However, a respected jeweller that would carry stock might be capable of operating with a more profitable markup.

peterh wrote:Approx. 10%

How do you know that? Are you an undercover agent for Mr. W? Tell me!

President wrote:I don't know what CW's margins are but I don't think it would be possible. As an "e-shop" owner I have to say if I end up with a measly £5 profit after selling a watch I'm not going to be happy.

You must remember that there is nothing to say that CWL will still be retailing his watches in future years for the low prices he currently does. I am in no doubt that Chris is currently brand building right now what is essentially still a virgin company and as a result we are able to pick up the odd bargain. I am also in no doubt that Chris will have greater aspirations for the long term future of his company and he will be sure to have a far off dream somewhere in the back of his mind. Wether that dream ever comes to fruition for him only time will tell of course but he is sure to have a bit of ambition. As a result we might all appreciate someday that we got a CWL watch or two and bargain basement prices. There is nothing to say that over time his prices will not alter to cater for a retailers margin.

Anyway back to the point and it seems you lot have all missed it. However it has been there all the time I have been aware of CWL and I am in no doubt it has been there since the very early days of CWL.

Christopher Ward Of London wrote:What is an affiliate programme? In simple terms an affiliate programme allows you (the affiliate) to place links to christopherward.co.uk on your website in various forms such as banners, text links, dynamic scrollers, and product feeds. Then, when a user from your site clicks through to christopherward.co.uk and makes a purchase we pay you up to 15% of the sale.

http://www.christopherward.co.uk/conten ... affiliates

So the guy with that site could be totally legitimate for all we know. Also there are many businesses out there currently operating on far less than a 15% margin so it is not impossible for CWL to broaden their horizons over time.

Anyway to all the people that say any change to the current CWL business model would " detract from the brand " is just plain snobbery. Any company has to change with the markets to survive and it would be impossible for a company to guarantee to always be true to its original values. There would not be much point for Chris to someday go bankrupt but turn around to his debtors with the excuse that at least he never sold out. I dont think those debtors would really care.

Yes we got a nice watch but at the end of the day CWL is a business that needs to survive. May I suggest that we all just accept that and deal with it.

The whole point of CW is his low prices. I can get better looking watches with modified movements from prestigious companies and get to see the watch in real-life before I buy. What's the point of CW if it isn't to provide great watches at great prices? There are already loads of good watches out there, the only difference is the price.

Edit: The affiliate scheme is for advertising, not actually selling the watch.

President wrote:The affiliate scheme is for advertising, not actually selling the watch.

Correct but the point I was making was that CWL are prepared to give at least 15% of their margin away to others.

I dont agree with the rest of your statement though. Yes there are other good watches out there but it is all a matter of personal preference. If we all liked the same thing then we would all have the same thing. I am quite sure the likes of a C4 could hold its own at a price point of £199 on the high street. Yes it would have to compete but its a tough world out there but that could not be considered to be an expensive price point unless of course you take into consideration the poor $ exchange rate at the moment but that is hardly the fault of CWL. Also if you want a bargain and wish to use the net then you could still do so and that ( at least to me ) makes this whole argument futile. I somehow think if I went down to the high street the Seiko's etc of this world will retail at a far higher price than they do on the net but there are still those out there who are prepared to pay the higher price and CWL is currently missing out on that market. The internet will always be cheaper because they do not have the overheads that high street stores do so I would not expect a high street jeweller to compete only on price. He competes with service and presentation.

Personally it puzzles me as to why some people get their knickers in a twist about things like this. Who cares who is selling them. If people dont wish to deal with other companies then dont. They can still order direct from CWL. After all that is the consumers prerogative and it gives you a choice. That is what is called a " free market ". Without it we would be at the mercy of manufacturers and I can bet right now nobody here would want that. On that note if that company or any other was selling the watches even cheaper than CWL is then I wonder if there would even be dissenters. I somehow doubt it. You would all be heading off there for your purchases instead.

President wrote:

peterh wrote:Approx. 10%

How do you know that? Are you an undercover agent for Mr. W? Tell me!

Nothing of the sort. I asked him, and he told me. Simple as that.

I'd have to add that this was on the C5, in the days that you got a C5 for some silly amount like UKL 159,51 or something. It may be different now, but it's not going to be hugely different.

If you sell between 30 and 200 watches a day, and you're able to keep operational cost down, it's not gonna get you in the Fortune 500, but it's still a fairly good way to earn a decent living and do what you like at the same time.

Terminator 2 wrote:Anyway to all the people that say any change to the current CWL business model would " detract from the brand " is just plain snobbery. Any company has to change with the markets to survive and it would be impossible for a company to guarantee to always be true to its original values. There would not be much point for Chris to someday go bankrupt but turn around to his debtors with the excuse that at least he never sold out. I dont think those debtors would really care.

Yes we got a nice watch but at the end of the day CWL is a business that needs to survive. May I suggest that we all just accept that and deal with it.

You've got various good points, from a business point of view.
Plus, in the end, if Chris's watches would ba available in high street stores, that would mean that he's made a solid name for himself, and secured the brand.

Part of the gripe in this thread is about another operation simply nicking his brand name.

Prez wrote:The whole point of CW is his low prices. I can get better looking watches with modified movements from prestigious companies and get to see the watch in real-life before I buy. What's the point of CW if it isn't to provide great watches at great prices? There are already loads of good watches out there, the only difference is the price.

Pardon my French... but that's ****.
Seriously: I see how this might be the case for you, but you state it as a fact, rather than as an opinion, and therefore it IS ****.
I have not managed to find a watch that, to me, has the appeal that the C5 has - it either doesn't exist or it's a well-kept secret. Now, to me, the C5 is exceptional - but I have yet to find a diver in a comparable (below 500 quid) price range that, from the sheer looks of it, I like more than the C6. Most affordable divers (and yes, that includes the Steinhart) lack the individualilty of the C6 - there's simply too many of them that have too many wannabe characteristics. And while I realise that to some, this is a qualifier, to me it is a huge letdown. Not just because, in general, I dislike Rolex desing, but also, and even more so, because the Steinhart 'designers' chose to emulate rather than to create.

peter

I would say most people buy a CW because it's a good quality watch at a low price. What would the average person buy if given a choice between a free Christopher Ward or a free Omega? For you, it's the design that appeals. The normal person, the person most companies have to aim at, would get the Omega because they know little about watches and want to stick to something they have heard is good.