Hi all,

Wondering what you all think about this. I’ve put it on the CWE FB page already.

The BumbleBeast was paid for on Jan 10th, arrived a week later with a chrono hand out of alignment. I opted for a return for a refund rather than a 10 week repair. They received it last week, and I got my refund Feb 5th, but they did not refund the full amount ($100 short).

CW replied this morning, saying the duty is not refunded, and that if I want to dispute the duty payment, I have to contact DHL and they gave a phone number and an email address.

The problem here, besides them sending me a watch that was faulty, is that they’re asking me to contact DHL… But under DDP terms (delivered, duty paid), THEY are the IOR/Importer of record and thus they are the party that need to contact DHL for the duty/taxes to be refunded. It is not me, or any US consumer, who have to do this.

So, CW should refund me in full, and then claim the duty back from DHL. It’s black and white. I’m awaiting their further response and if no resolution, I will take it to MF directly.

Imagine buying a $4000+ Bel Canto and paying $300-$400 in customs duties. The watch shows up, and the chime doesn’t work, the hands are floating around in the case, or some other critical flaw. You want to return it, of course. But wait… YOU eat that $300 duty fee. How is that reasonable?

If they are not rectifying this I’m definitely done buying from their website as it seems I have no protection against CW’s poor quality control.

CW's website seems quite clear on this;-

Duties and Taxes

I suggest you contact the Head of Customer Service; Matthew.Thomas@christopherward.co.uk

Guy

Sent from my Galaxy S23 Ultra using Tapatalk

Unsure what you mean, Guy? The watch was broken. That’s not my fault. And CW should fix the issues, not me. It was DDP terms so they are solely dealing with DHL.

Jkpa wrote:Unsure what you mean, Guy? The watch was broken. That’s not my fault. And CW should fix the issues, not me. It was DDP terms so they are solely dealing with DHL.

From my reading of the information on CW's website unlessI'mmistaken, it's down to CW, not you.

I suggest you contact Matthew Thomas to get a resolution.

Guy

Sent from my Galaxy S23 Ultra using Tapatalk

Right, that is correct. I will try. Thanks for the contact.

PS> For future reference, CW contact details are in the How to . . . . . forum.

Guy

Sent from my Galaxy S23 Ultra using Tapatalk

Another reply which is simply inaccurate. I emailed DHL after getting the below and also called DHL and they told me straight out they cannot refund me as I never paid them. The refund has to be settled with the shipper (CW) under DDP terms and then CW has to settle with me. It’s freight forwarding 101 (happens to be what I do for a living as well not that it matters)

“DHL will refund you in full for the remainder of the balance as this is paid to them to clear your parcel through customs.

We notify you of this at checkout and on our returns page that the full refund can be obtained and this will be refunded via DHL as this charge is paid to them however on the return of the item as long as you confirm the refund which is sent via email and your return Airway bill this will be refunded in full for you.

Please note CW does not keep the duties and taxes amount as this is paid to DHL as our couriers to clear your parcel through customs as this is your local duties and taxes fee.”

No separate policy for refunds from a defective watch or refunds because you just don't like it. Just plain "we cannot refund customs duties when you return your watch for a refund".

Edited to add that I think they absolutely should be refunding ALL moneys paid including duties when they send you a defective watch. If you return it because just don't like or want it, then there's less of an argument I guess.

Hope cw deal with this. It would be very poor for them not to based on the circumstances.

I agree with Alex above. Fair enough if you just changed your mind but a customer shouldnt be liable for costs incurred from a faulty product they have sold.

Right - if I didn’t like it, fair play. But alas, not the case here.

Now it’s resolved… but only after I copied in the CEO…

The refund for the duty should be processed within 5 days.

They’re still talking about DHL and the duty process so it seems they’re not really grasping how this should work. I explained again that in the old days, yes, the customer pays DHL directly and thus would claim directly if the watch was sent back, but ever since CW went to DDP terms, only CW can claim the duties back.

I hope they will be educated by DHL as well. From talking to a watch buddy today, he was also shorted the duty on a broken watch refund.

I will get my money back (hopefully) but the aggravation and bad taste remains.

ajax87 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 6:09 pm

No separate policy for refunds from a defective watch or refunds because you just don't like it. Just plain "we cannot refund customs duties when you return your watch for a refund".

Edited to add that I think they absolutely should be refunding ALL moneys paid including duties when they send you a defective watch. If you return it because just don't like or want it, then there's less of an argument I guess.

Screenshot 2024-02-06 at 12.04.59 PM.png

. . .but isn't that for the Rest of the World, Alex?

If you look a few lines up on your screenshot, to the USA section, it says "We refund Sales Taxes when you return your watch for a refund".


Of course this is perhaps where the waters get a bit muddy, because there's Sales Tax and there's Duty (as I understand it for the USA). Are they treated separately and differently i.e. CW refunds one but not the other, OR are they treated as one and the same, and CW should refund both?

Guy

@Bahnstormer_vRS

Yes Guy, customs duties are a completely different beast than sales tax. Sales taxes are levied by the state, different rates for different states, applied to most goods purchased by residents of the state. I pay a 6% Michigan sales tax when I buy from CW, or say Amazon. Customs duties are levied by the federal government as basically an import fee.

In principle they are kind of the same thing- a tax. I think the issue is the different governing bodies handling them. The sales tax system might be better equipped for easy refund as compared to the cluster (expletive) that is the US Customs and Border Protection department.

They’re still talking about DHL and the duty process

It seems to me that whilst you are a customer of CW, CW are the customer of DHL and it is they who should be sorting out any issues - as they have a contract with DHL and not you.

By coincidence I've recently had and issue with DHL losing a case of beer that I ordered. I didn't contact DHL, I e-mailed the brewery who very quickly sorted out the issue for me. And phoned me to let me know what was happening.

exHowfener wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 7:56 pm

They’re still talking about DHL and the duty process

It seems to me that whilst you are a customer of CW, CW are the customer of DHL and it is they who should be sorting out any issues - as they have a contract with DHL and not you.

By coincidence I've recently had and issue with DHL losing a case of beer that I ordered. I didn't contact DHL, I e-mailed the brewery who very quickly sorted out the issue for me. And phoned me to let me know what was happening.

Right on the money. CW and DHL have the contract with DDP terms. I’m simply the guy receiving the goods. I am not involved with the customs portions at all now that CW are using DDP terms.

DDP?

Glad to hear this is resolved, although it’s absurd it took that much effort on your part to get it resolved.