CW Marketing spend

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CW Marketing spend

Post by golfjunky »

just saw this on'tinternet. WOW £1.15m!

"Christopher Ward sales rose to £13.2 million in 2021, up 25% since the pre-pandemic 2019.

Growth was fastest in the UK, up 39% year-on-year in 2021. Sales to the rest of the world rose 22%.

The company posted an adjusted EBITDA loss of £1.1 million, up from a loss of £783,000 in 2020. Mr France says the larger loss was largely down to increased marketing spend of £1.15 million.

After the end of its financial year in March 2021, the company founders injected a loan of £750,000 into the business, leaving it with a positive cash position of around £1 million."
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Re: CW Marketing spend

Post by Molan »

To be honest that's peanuts in UK marketing as a whole. We are one of the most expensive ad markets in the world (in fact THE most expensive for some media types). EG £1M wouldn't buy you 4 weeks of decent quality national TV.

It'll buy you a lot more in online and social platforms but it's still quite small. UK online ad spend last year was around £20 billion.

I'm not sure exactly what the big watch brands spend these days. I worked with TAG in the 90's and they were spending £1M back then. This excludes sponsorship budgets (which are huge!) as they tend to be multi-market. You'd be amazed at some of the costs involved for people like Hublot as sponsors of 'timekeeping' for the English Premier League - last estimate I saw for this was over £7.5M!

Of course, CW is a way smaller brand so it's the percentage of spend vs turnover that's important. However, if they want to play with the big boys, especially without a retail network, then advertising is a critical area to develop growth strategies.
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Re: CW Marketing spend

Post by BobMunro »

Molan wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 11:53 am To be honest that's peanuts in UK marketing as a whole. We are one of the most expensive ad markets in the world (in fact THE most expensive for some media types). EG £1M wouldn't buy you 4 weeks of decent quality national TV.

It'll buy you a lot more in online and social platforms but it's still quite small. UK online ad spend last year was around £20 billion.

I'm not sure exactly what the big watch brands spend these days. I worked with TAG in the 90's and they were spending £1M back then. This excludes sponsorship budgets (which are huge!) as they tend to be multi-market. You'd be amazed at some of the costs involved for people like Hublot as sponsors of 'timekeeping' for the English Premier League - last estimate I saw for this was over £7.5M!

Of course, CW is a way smaller brand so it's the percentage of spend vs turnover that's important. However, if they want to play with the big boys, especially without a retail network, then advertising is a critical area to develop growth strategies.
Marketing and advertising are indeed vital elements of the business mix and for a Company with a turnover of £13m (and operating at a loss) then £1m is not insignificant.

The questions I would ask however from the bit I've bolded are - do they want to/aspire to play with the big boys? Who are the big boys to which you refer? For me CWL is and probably always will be a niche brand that can and I'm sure will become profitable but it will never be in the Premier League, or even the Championship! I would add that there's nowt wrong with that.
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Re: CW Marketing spend

Post by golfjunky »

With the marketing department letting MF spout lines like this

“There is a femininity to the design, like an E-Type Jaguar or a lioness that makes it gender-neutral,” Mr France suggests.

I’d suggest they are not spending enough
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Re: CW Marketing spend

Post by JAFO »

There were TV adverts over the last few years. They aren't cheap. Its very difficult, I think, restricting themselves to a modest profit margin. However if they increased their prices, it might damage sales, so it's a tricky balancing exercise.
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Re: CW Marketing spend

Post by Caller »

The videos promoting the new watch should be filed under 'dreadful'. I have seen obscure small brands promoting a single watch do so much better.
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Re: CW Marketing spend

Post by jtc »

Money poorly spent by all accounts.

Interesting financials, curious debt is so high on reasonable revenue.
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Re: CW Marketing spend

Post by FloridaPhil »

Caller wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:22 pm The videos promoting the new watch should be filed under 'dreadful'. I have seen obscure small brands promoting a single watch do so much better.
Yet more dark images in which the watch cannot be seen properly. It's long been a theme, sadly.
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Re: CW Marketing spend

Post by Molan »

BobMunro wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 12:02 pm Marketing and advertising are indeed vital elements of the business mix and for a Company with a turnover of £13m (and operating at a loss) then £1m is not insignificant.

The questions I would ask however from the bit I've bolded are - do they want to/aspire to play with the big boys? Who are the big boys to which you refer? For me CWL is and probably always will be a niche brand that can and I'm sure will become profitable but it will never be in the Premier League, or even the Championship! I would add that there's nowt wrong with that.
Obviously we don't know their longer term aspirations but I'd imagine they would be thinking about breaking out from the niche marketplace. They wouldn't be spending money on TV & large size out of home if they wanted to remain a smaller brand.

I'd think they might have people like Oris, Rado, Longines, maybe even lower end TAG, in their sites.
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Re: CW Marketing spend

Post by Molan »

FloridaPhil wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 11:46 pm
Caller wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:22 pm The videos promoting the new watch should be filed under 'dreadful'. I have seen obscure small brands promoting a single watch do so much better.
Yet more dark images in which the watch cannot be seen properly. It's long been a theme, sadly.
Completely by chance I've just come out of a meeting with some very senior Google creative and analytics people. They showed an example of a brand in the same sector who had an interesting looking ad who then dropped in a bloody great, screen filling product image. It was very clear and showed lots of detail.

The drop-off in viewing at this point was huge - people had been Ok about watching the 'nice' build-up but didn't want a big bright product shot shoved in their face.

The advice from Google (and who am I to argue with a company that makes $30Bn in ad revenue from YouTube) was to avoid this kind of sales technique and to make sure ads remained interesting through more subtle use of imagery. This was especially true for ads designed to lure people into an online sales environment. By creating interest and building awareness, the view-through and subsequent click to web rates were consistently higher.

Sounds like the CW marketing people know what they're doing to me :)

NB - We should always remember that people here are not part of any mainstream ad campaign target audience. They are advertising to build awareness to a much broader set of target audiences and to generate longer-term brand saliency and awareness.
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Re: CW Marketing spend

Post by Caller »

Molan wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 11:56 amObviously we don't know their longer term aspirations but I'd imagine they would be thinking about breaking out from the niche marketplace. They wouldn't be spending money on TV & large size out of home if they wanted to remain a smaller brand.

I'd think they might have people like Oris, Rado, Longines, maybe even lower end TAG, in their sites.
To do that, they will have to get into bricks and mortar. I cant see that happening anytime soon.

Coincidentally, I just saw a very polished Rado ad on Thai TV, promoting their latest ceramic Captain Cooks. Rado are well represented here and you will often find Rado, Longines, Mido and Tissot concessions, all swatch brands, together, in various different Malls and Department Stores across Thailand.
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Re: CW Marketing spend

Post by FloridaPhil »

Molan wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:04 pm
FloridaPhil wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 11:46 pm
Caller wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:22 pm The videos promoting the new watch should be filed under 'dreadful'. I have seen obscure small brands promoting a single watch do so much better.
Yet more dark images in which the watch cannot be seen properly. It's long been a theme, sadly.
They showed an example of a brand in the same sector who had an interesting looking ad who then dropped in a bloody great, screen filling product image. It was very clear and showed lots of detail.

The drop-off in viewing at this point was huge - people had been Ok about watching the 'nice' build-up but didn't want a big bright product shot shoved in their face.
And that's all fine and dandy except that I didn't say they should use 'a bloody great, screen filling product image'.

Anecdotally however, the number of times I DO see a comment on various FB pages or forums stating that the end-user's on-the-wrist photo is so much better than the murky stock images used by CW is quite amazing. I stand by my original comment.
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Re: CW Marketing spend

Post by Molan »

FloridaPhil wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 5:34 pm
Molan wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:04 pm
FloridaPhil wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 11:46 pm

Yet more dark images in which the watch cannot be seen properly. It's long been a theme, sadly.
They showed an example of a brand in the same sector who had an interesting looking ad who then dropped in a bloody great, screen filling product image. It was very clear and showed lots of detail.

The drop-off in viewing at this point was huge - people had been Ok about watching the 'nice' build-up but didn't want a big bright product shot shoved in their face.
And that's all fine and dandy except that I didn't say they should use 'a bloody great, screen filling product image'.

Anecdotally however, the number of times I DO see a comment on various FB pages or forums stating that the end-user's on-the-wrist photo is so much better than the murky stock images used by CW is quite amazing. I stand by my original comment.
I’m sure you’re correct Phil, I’ll let the senior guys at Google marketing and creative know that they’re wrong and clearly don’t know what they’re talking about 🤣
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Re: CW Marketing spend

Post by thomcat00 »

Molan wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:31 pm
FloridaPhil wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 5:34 pm
Molan wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:04 pm

They showed an example of a brand in the same sector who had an interesting looking ad who then dropped in a bloody great, screen filling product image. It was very clear and showed lots of detail.

The drop-off in viewing at this point was huge - people had been Ok about watching the 'nice' build-up but didn't want a big bright product shot shoved in their face.
And that's all fine and dandy except that I didn't say they should use 'a bloody great, screen filling product image'.

Anecdotally however, the number of times I DO see a comment on various FB pages or forums stating that the end-user's on-the-wrist photo is so much better than the murky stock images used by CW is quite amazing. I stand by my original comment.
I’m sure you’re correct Phil, I’ll let the senior guys at Google marketing and creative know that they’re wrong and clearly don’t know what they’re talking about 🤣
I hear what you’re saying about the compare and contrast, Molan, but don’t you think Google could have cherry picked a bit to make their point? The semi-reveal tends to irritate me, and it conveys a KickStarter feel to me. It is faux-artsy, clumsy, and it feels amateurish. I’m with FloridaPhil, the CW video ads miss the mark and don’t convey the quality of the watch design.

Google stats are great for what they can reveal, but one thing they also can demonstrate is the difference between averages/lowest common denominators vs. long tail.
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Re: CW Marketing spend

Post by thomcat00 »

Molan wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:04 pm
NB - We should always remember that people here are not part of any mainstream ad campaign target audience. They are advertising to build awareness to a much broader set of target audiences and to generate longer-term brand saliency and awareness.
This point is also good to keep in mind. I’m already sold on this brand. I’m not the untapped market. And I do, like the rest of us here, want CW to be successful.
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