Customer service

nycWATCHnerd · Post by **nycWATCHnerd** » Tue Jan 28, 2025 2:42 pm

meinberg wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 1:36 pm All good suggestions and not pretending CS is perfect but what are you prepared to pay for top notch CS? Because it’s going to cost, and that cost is going on the price as sure as the sun is coming up tomorrow.
The annual sale has always caused CS issues, and usually creates a bit of discussion here, and no doubt the staff get hammered as well.

Not saying you’re wrong, but personally I prefer the money to go into the watch.

@meinberg
@akirk @Bahnstormer_vRS

I was responding to a question asking about what CS changes were needed and gave general advice based on my own experience and what others have written about on this forum. In reality, I could not offer an informed decision about what CW needs unless I spent time with people who actually run the business to understand their specific needs. A big part of that research would also be talking with all kinds of CW customers.

In my line of work (IT Help/Service Desks being one of the areas I supervise) many businesses still treat CS as an "overhead cost" so we are constantly fighting for funding. Your comment about increasing the cost of the watch is not lost on me but CS, at any level of service, is an integral part of retail/online business operations. They need treat CS as an "input cost" which is part of what ever product they are selling or service they are offering.

I understand CW Customer Service gets hammered (your words) during sales but this is not new and they have done nothing about it so the fault of poor service lies solely with CW. The other issue is that CS appears to be getting worse (not just my experience) during non-sale times as well.

Again, I do not fully understand their business but in my experience some of the issues that lead to this kind of poor service are: untrained staff, poorly trained staff, not enough staff, CS staff not having the proper tools (IT or otherwise) or information to do their jobs, poor CS management, CS management not reporting to executive management the issues and needs, executive management not paying attention to CS issues, poor executive management, exponential growth of the customers/community being served, unrealistic expectations of the customers/community being served, not managing the expectations of the customers/community being served, poor business processes, no way to manage performance which helps identify issues (KPIs), not enough funding for CS, and so many other items that could help resolve the issues and/or set better expectations for customers.

If you think I am being unfair or unreasonable about CW Customer Service, go read my post defending them.

akirk · Post by **akirk** » Tue Jan 28, 2025 3:51 pm

meinberg wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 1:36 pm All good suggestions and not pretending CS is perfect but what are you prepared to pay for top notch CS? Because it’s going to cost, and that cost is going on the price as sure as the sun is coming up tomorrow.
The annual sale has always caused CS issues, and usually creates a bit of discussion here, and no doubt the staff get hammered as well.

Not saying you’re wrong, but personally I prefer the money to go into the watch.

A good question - but I am not sure I agree with the conclusion.

Pricing is fairly market dependent, it is rarely just a factor of the underlying costs, putting up those costs doesn't mean that the market allows the price to increase - it might mean that profits decrease.

I also think that any business which makes the claim that they can improve customer service but it will cost more is one I wouldn't do business with - customer service is about a culture that is embedded in their company, CW had it so right when they started - driven no doubt by Wera (CW's wife) who was superb - what we are seeing is growth in the business without the equivalent growth in the customer service - so they are effectively making more profit. To invest in the customer service should simply take them back to the more balanced cost / profit scenario they had previously.

Also - bad customer service puts people off, good customer service can bring them in their droves - i.e. good customer service can make you more money.

I think the simple reality is that everyone who runs a business has their own skew to their strengths and for some customer service comes naturally, for others they have to remember to work at it... CW needs a reminder to work at it a bit more...

robert75 · Post by **robert75** » Tue Jan 28, 2025 5:33 pm

I frequently see threads about CW customer service and as others have said usually around the sales time. A lot of it delay in orders being shipped or wrong orders etc....

I have had to contact CW I think three times in all the times I have been on the forum which is about the same time I have owned CW watches. On both occasions they came good. One was the bracelet on a FLE watch that IMO was quite poorly finished and scratched up the case back of the watch. That issue was quickly sorted. Another was a problem with the watch movement on a purchase and to be honest they exceeded my expectations in how they dealt with it. The third occasion was slightly more odd, during a sale I think during the CHR Ward era I bought a wallet during a sale they sent 2. I contacted them to tell them and sent it back (Didnt even get a thanks for letting them know, oh well.....)

Anyhow, I think sometimes expectations can be a little exaggerated when it comes to customer service and what to expect. Whenever I purchase something big online I have a look at reviews etc and feedback and the negative ones so often have nonsense like "Arrived 2 days late" or "I contacted them they didnt respond immediately"

If you want bad CS I can think of Nomos who years ago I bought a watch strap from (They were one of the few selling decent Cordovan straps with quick change) Paid £70 for the strap from Germany. watch strap arrived and the spring bars were actually too small for the strap (How they managed to fit it who knows) making it impossible to use. Contacted Nomos got a bland response and had to pay for the cost of returning the strap. Never again would I buy from that brand.

akirk · Post by **akirk** » Tue Jan 28, 2025 6:01 pm

I think that everyone has their own definition of good / bad customer service - however I think it is rarely disputed that good and accurate communication underpins a lot of good customer service... For CW - simply getting accurate systems that talked to each other more accurately would help enormously - and then manage expectations...

my example - why am I still missing the watch bought on the 8th January? Presumably it is sitting there on a shelf as they sold it to me - but they have managed to send me a couple of orders placed on the 19th of January - so what is their logic as to what goes out first etc. If straps have a quicker turnaround and watches need more QA before sending out - then warn people... None of these things are all that hard - they just need someone to think through each step of the process and look at what helps / hinders customer service - it probably doesn't even need many more people, just a bit more logic.

JAFO · Post by **JAFO** » Tue Jan 28, 2025 6:09 pm

I know CW are making better money on the basis of higher priced watches.

If you make £30m turnover on BCs you are selling 10,000 watches. If it's Dunes you are most likely selling 30,000 watches.

The lower the price the harder it is to manage the service. You have more units to ship, more returns to process, and more failures to repair.

It must be one of the problems with a 3x cost model, which might work in retail goods that don't need maintenance, but may be a bit low for goods that might need a lot of attention.

I think watch buyers are probably far more attentive to relatively minor issues than buyers of many other items.

With a low profit margin "get it right first time" becomes far more critical.

Eg, a NN watch I bought in the sale was engraved with a personalised message. It's cost CW to ship it to me. I might not keep it at all. They offered to replace the case back, but that involves the cost of returning the item, reworking and reshipping, and leaves me with lingering doubts about the quality of a reworked item. How does an engraved watch get sold at all in the first place.. I was quite surprised they didn't offer me a discount of some sort to avoid the return. It seems rather mismanaged to be honest. Anyway, I still have about 50 days to decide. Even with my relatively small number of purchases, this isn't the first mistake, and that's higher than it ought to be.

Mikkei4 · Post by **Mikkei4** » Tue Jan 28, 2025 6:39 pm

Upfront I have to say that I haven't trawled word by word through the previous posts on this topic but I've sort of got the gist of most entries.

This subject has reared its head up every now and then for as long as I can remember and I joined in 2017 !

That it is still being discussed shows that CW has fits and bouts of good and bad CS, most times poor around the Sale periods but maybe also a few individual problems within general selling of their items.

Taken to the lowest level many/most/all of us have performed CS activities for our "customers" whether they are internal to our workplace (i.e our company colleagues) or external customers (i.e. those paying for the company's products or services). So individually we know what we expect of good CS but those expectations will probably differ amongst us.

IMO providing a good CS is a state of mind and attitude. You could have 2 people dealing with CS without some IT based CS app and be giving great service but equally you could have 4 people in CS with a great IT system but without any improvement if it's just 2 of them that have the attitude to giving great service.

Most times that I've needed CW CS it's been good, not great but acceptable for the level of product cost and importance. But I've graded the service without knowing what's happening in the CW workplace so I might be expecting too much and too quickly.

If CW haven't fixed it in the 7 years I've been on this Forum then something is blatantly wrong but only those internal to CW will know what, why and what's needed for it to be great and consistent CS all through the year.

robert75 · Post by **robert75** » Tue Jan 28, 2025 6:44 pm

That sounds really odd to resell an engraved watch! Not heard that before usually its a bit of a "No returns" unless there is a defect in the watch because its pretty much impossible to resell again.

I have a few watches that are engraved and I would never return or resell as they are personal to me or family.

As someone who has bought a few CW over the years its sad to hear that these problems are still ongoing as the company grows, its gone a long way since as another said Wera would be in contact with you within a few hours to sort out any problems you had.

I went to a CW meeting a few years back and there was quite a few young enthusiastic staff working there, God it makes me sound old but perhaps its a little of the problem a young team who dont really understand the expectations of a large customer base (No criticism of them by the way we all have to learn somewhere)

Hopefully something gets sorted as its surprising to see these kinds of threads still going year after year.

nycWATCHnerd · Post by **nycWATCHnerd** » Tue Jan 28, 2025 6:48 pm

akirk wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 6:01 pm I think it is rarely disputed that timely, good and accurate communication underpins a lot of good customer service...

^^^ Fixed it for you.

akirk wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 6:01 pm For CW - simply getting accurate systems that talked to each other more accurately would help enormously - and then manage expectations...my example - why am I still missing the watch bought on the 8th January? Presumably it is sitting there on a shelf as they sold it to me - but they have managed to send me a couple of orders placed on the 19th of January - so what is their logic as to what goes out first etc. If straps have a quicker turnaround and watches need more QA before sending out - then warn people... None of these things are all that hard - they just need someone to think through each step of the process and look at what helps / hinders customer service - it probably doesn't even need many more people, just a bit more logic.

JAFO wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 6:09 pm ...a NN watch I bought in the sale was engraved with a personalised message. It's cost CW to ship it to me. I might not keep it at all. They offered to replace the case back, but that involves the cost of returning the item, reworking and reshipping, and leaves me with lingering doubts about the quality of a reworked item. How does an engraved watch get sold at all in the first place. I was quite surprised they didn't offer me a discount of some sort to avoid the return. It seems rather mismanaged to be honest. Anyway, I still have about 50 days to decide. Even with my relatively small number of purchases, this isn't the first mistake, and that's higher than it ought to be.

More examples of the need to update, improve, and/or replace IT Systems and Business Processes.

akirk · Post by **akirk** » Tue Jan 28, 2025 7:18 pm

JAFO wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 6:09 pm I know CW are making better money on the basis of higher priced watches.

If you make £30m turnover on BCs you are selling 10,000 watches. If it's Dunes you are most likely selling 30,000 watches.

The lower the price the harder it is to manage the service. You have more units to ship, more returns to process, and more failures to repair.

It must be one of the problems with a 3x cost model, which might work in retail goods that don't need maintenance, but may be a bit low for goods that might need a lot of attention.

What you say makes sense - but turn it the other way around:
- when they were a much younger company & their watches were much cheaper (so their profit margin brought in less money) - their customer service was better...
- if they are now selling watches on average at a higher price (which I don't think anyone would dispute) then the profit per unit is higher on a 3x cost model - so why has customer service apparently declined?

I have a number of their watches, have bought more than 30 over the years, have spent time chatting through business challenges with the man himself Christopher Ward in the past, have dealt with them for over a decade and their customer service at that initial point was superb - why, because CW's wife Wera drove the culture of customer service - it was that simple...

As they have scaled, it seem that the culture hasn't entirely grown with the company growth...

JonnyG789 · Post by **JonnyG789** » Wed Jan 29, 2025 6:01 pm

I am new to this forum and I registered as I have received such poor customer service with the recent purchase of my 12X and looks like i am not the only one. I have received the 12X today (after two delays) I wasn't able to re-size the bracelet using the web page so I rang up last week and spoke to a lady who to told me they had put a note to re-size my bracelet before dispatch. They ALSO said they will give me a complimentary rubber strap to go with said watch - this hasn't arrive today either. The experience has been so disappointing. Today, I have emailed Mike France directly and also Katie Howard (unsure if she still works there as head of Customer service) and thus far, received no response. I am appalled it has been this bad, this is my first purchase (likely to be my last) from them and has put me off buying any further watches from the brand.

Anyone had similar issues with the 12X? any advice on next steps would be much appreciated..

Post by **Bahnstormer_vRS** » Wed Jan 29, 2025 6:26 pm

JonnyG789 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 6:01 pm I am new to this forum and I registered as I have received such poor customer service with the recent purchase of my 12X and looks like i am not the only one. I have received the 12X today (after two delays) I wasn't able to re-size the bracelet using the web page so I rang up last week and spoke to a lady who to told me they had put a note to re-size my bracelet before dispatch. They ALSO said they will give me a complimentary rubber strap to go with said watch - this hasn't arrive today either. The experience has been so disappointing. Today, I have emailed Mike France directly and also Katie Howard (unsure if she still works there as head of Customer service) and thus far, received no response. I am appalled it has been this bad, this is my first purchase (likely to be my last) from them and has put me off buying any further watches from the brand.

Anyone had similar issues with the 12X? any advice on next steps would be much appreciated..

Welcome to the Forum / Asylum and I'm sorry to hear that you do so 'under cloud'.

Hiccups with missing extra straps have, I believe, been known (albeit not experienced personally) and resizing the bracelet is quite simple with the screw in bars and correct 1.4mm sized jeweller's screwdriver.

As to next steps?

You've done about as much as can be done, by emailing Mike France and Katie Howard (yes, she is the 'Customer Experience Lead'; I was in touch with her a couple of weeks ago); albeit Mike France is currently away in Australia so with the time difference an email to Sarah Baumann the COO sarah.baumann@christopherward.co.uk might be a useful alternative.

The above said; have you tried a 'normal' email to Customer Service and/or trying to reach CW on the phone?

Guy

Post by **Bahnstormer_vRS** » Wed Feb 05, 2025 12:48 am

@JonnyG789 - have you seen my post (reply to yours) above and have you been in touch further with CW?

Guy

JAFO · Post by **JAFO** » Wed Feb 05, 2025 4:00 am

nycWATCHnerd wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 2:42 pm
meinberg wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 1:36 pm All good suggestions and not pretending CS is perfect but what are you prepared to pay for top notch CS? Because it’s going to cost, and that cost is going on the price as sure as the sun is coming up tomorrow.
The annual sale has always caused CS issues, and usually creates a bit of discussion here, and no doubt the staff get hammered as well.

Not saying you’re wrong, but personally I prefer the money to go into the watch.
@meinberg
@akirk @Bahnstormer_vRS

I was responding to a question asking about what CS changes were needed and gave general advice based on my own experience and what others have written about on this forum. In reality, I could not offer an informed decision about what CW needs unless I spent time with people who actually run the business to understand their specific needs. A big part of that research would also be talking with all kinds of CW customers.

In my line of work (IT Help/Service Desks being one of the areas I supervise) many businesses still treat CS as an "overhead cost" so we are constantly fighting for funding. Your comment about increasing the cost of the watch is not lost on me but CS, at any level of service, is an integral part of retail/online business operations. They need treat CS as an "input cost" which is part of what ever product they are selling or service they are offering.

I understand CW Customer Service gets hammered (your words) during sales but this is not new and they have done nothing about it so the fault of poor service lies solely with CW. The other issue is that CS appears to be getting worse (not just my experience) during non-sale times as well.

Again, I do not fully understand their business but in my experience some of the issues that lead to this kind of poor service are: untrained staff, poorly trained staff, not enough staff, CS staff not having the proper tools (IT or otherwise) or information to do their jobs, poor CS management, CS management not reporting to executive management the issues and needs, executive management not paying attention to CS issues, poor executive management, exponential growth of the customers/community being served, unrealistic expectations of the customers/community being served, not managing the expectations of the customers/community being served, poor business processes, no way to manage performance which helps identify issues (KPIs), not enough funding for CS, and so many other items that could help resolve the issues and/or set better expectations for customers.

If you think I am being unfair or unreasonable about CW Customer Service, go read my post defending them.

Ha ha. I don't think I read this properly the first time. Except for a couple of minor points everything's rosy.

This is SNAFU. Do they have that in the US.

exHowfener · Post by **exHowfener** » Wed Feb 05, 2025 1:47 pm

This is SNAFU. Do they have that in the US.

I think it's an Americanism dating from WW2. So probably, yes. Don't you watch the news?

nycWATCHnerd · Post by **nycWATCHnerd** » Wed Feb 05, 2025 3:07 pm

JAFO wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 4:00 am Ha ha. I don't think I read this properly the first time. Except for a couple of minor points everything's rosy.

This is SNAFU. Do they have that in the US.

Apparently we invented it...

Christopher Ward Forum

Christopher Ward Forum

Customer service

Re: Customer service

Re: Customer service

Re: Customer service

Re: Customer service

Re: Customer service

Re: Customer service

Re: Customer service

Re: Customer service

Re: Customer service

Re: Customer service

Re: Customer service

Re: Customer service

Re: Customer service

Re: Customer service

Re: Customer service

Independently Operated Forum for CW Enthusiasts