Regarding titanium, and I'm prepared to be corrected here by someone who knows what they're talking about. (I dropped chemistry, with pleasure, in the third year).
As far as I understand CW uses grade 2 titanium on recent watches, such as the Twelve. I believe this scratches easily.
One only has to spend a few minutes on Youtube to find out that Trasker uses grade 5 titanium which is all but unscratchable, unmarkable, un... un... anyway, it's flipping tough.
I own a C65 LE. I look after my watch, I baby it, but after 7 years of ownership the steel bracelet looks like I go to work every day with John Rambo. An unscratchable (I know that's not a word, but you know what I mean) bracelet is an attractive proposition.

I apologize if this is a duplicate post. I hit submit and I can’t find the post. So here it is again.


They do use the grade 2 in the twelve which is prone to scratching easier. They do use grade 5 in the bel canto so it is an option.

There are also various hardening techniques that I am not sure work with ti. I can’t remember which watch company does a treatment on the normal 318 steel but it takes the normal stainless from something like 210 on the Vickers scale to 1200 something.

I have been trying to find if you put the nano ceramic car protection on a watch if that would prevent scratches or at least make it less common. But no luck on a definitive answer.

I own a bronze 300 and absolutely love the watch. I am very excited to see what they do.

I have an RZE, grade 2 titanium with a hardened coating, something like 8 times harder than SS. I’ve had it for nearly 3 years and can’t find a scratch on it. Can confirm it holds up better than my SS and other grade 2 titanium watches. And if RZE can do it for $400, CW should be able to do something similar for a reasonable price.

I will say though that I actually don’t notice much difference in scratch resistance between SS and titanium. My C63 elite looks to be in the same condition as my SS watches.

That is good to know. I am planning on getting a grand seiko shunbun coming up and the scratching part of the polishing was going to kill me.

I had a Titanium grade 2 with hardening, Oceanus line from Casio. Nice watch, but I concluded I don't like titanium. It's not about the scratches, but the dull look of it. I had to clean the case it every few days to make it shine again. I'd rather have the SS, or hardened SS like Sinn does it.

May I offer some perspective on this from what I've learnt in recent years . . . . .

hadon2525 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 3:41 am Regarding titanium, and I'm prepared to be corrected here by someone who knows what they're talking about. (I dropped chemistry, with pleasure, in the third year).
As far as I understand CW uses grade 2 titanium on recent watches, such as the Twelve. I believe this scratches easily.
One only has to spend a few minutes on Youtube to find out that Trasker uses grade 5 titanium which is all but unscratchable, unmarkable, un... un... anyway, it's flipping tough.
I own a C65 LE. I look after my watch, I baby it, but after 7 years of ownership the steel bracelet looks like I go to work every day with John Rambo. An unscratchable (I know that's not a word, but you know what I mean) bracelet is an attractive proposition.

Yes; CW use Grade 2 Titanium in a number of watches. It does not scratch easily; it shows marks or rubs. Titanium is lighter and stronger than steel. It is therefore more resilient to scratches. The marks or rubs are on the oxidisation or patina which forms, rather like on a bronze watch, except at a much slower rate and to a less noticeable degree.

For your C65 Steel bracelet; you should be able to rebrush / polish it back to looking good.

sclead wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 4:35 am I apologize if this is a duplicate post. I hit submit and I can’t find the post. So here it is again.


They do use the grade 2 in the twelve which is prone to scratching easier. They do use grade 5 in the bel canto so it is an option.

There are also various hardening techniques that I am not sure work with ti. I can’t remember which watch company does a treatment on the normal 318 steel but it takes the normal stainless from something like 210 on the Vickers scale to 1200 something.

I have been trying to find if you put the nano ceramic car protection on a watch if that would prevent scratches or at least make it less common. But no luck on a definitive answer.

I own a bronze 300 and absolutely love the watch. I am very excited to see what they do.

CW uses Grade 5 Titanium on the C1 Bel Canto for acoustic & resonance reasons. It is stronger and harder than Grade 2 Titanium and for this reason is more difficult, time consuming, more expensive to machine.

I believe with hardening there are two main alternatives. For steel there is ice hardening, or something similar, which changes the composition of the metal. For titanium a coating seems to be used more widely, probably a variation on the nano ceramic car protection you mention, but this would be applied to the case before assembly (a bit like dipping a car body in a bath of rust protection stuff?).

schiorean wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 7:38 am I had a Titanium grade 2 with hardening, Oceanus line from Casio. Nice watch, but I concluded I don't like titanium. It's not about the scratches, but the dull look of it. I had to clean the case it every few days to make it shine again. I'd rather have the SS, or hardened SS like Sinn does it.

I'm surprised by this, but accept what you say.

Titanium has a natural darker, dull colour compared to steel. Cleaning the case to make it shine would sound like you were polishing off the naturally forming oxidisation (like on a bronze watch) but, as far as I know, if the titanium is protected by a hardening coating this also protects the titanium from the atmosphere and prevents the natural oxidisation. That's why it shows marks less easily.

All food for thought.

Guy

Bahnstormer_vRS wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 9:24 am Titanium has a natural darker, dull colour compared to steel. Cleaning the case to make it shine would sound like you were polishing off the naturally forming oxidisation (like on a bronze watch) but, as far as I know, if the titanium is protected by a hardening coating this also protects the titanium from the atmosphere and prevents the natural oxidisation. That's why it shows marks less easily.

This was the watch https://www.sakurawatches.com/casio-ose ... 3000a-1ajf. The case is not the standard unpolished titanium finishing. It's titanium + hard coating but also brushed with some polished parts if I remember correctly. Anyway I distinctly remember some dark blemishes in time and I took a tootbrush cleaned it with water and soap and was all nice looking again. I think it was some kind of surface oxidation or something similar. It kept appearing after a few days of wearing.

Wanted to add a small bit of additional info:

The case of the Bel Canto is grade 5 titanium. The bracelet is Grade 2. In the right light, you can see that they're ever so slightly different colors (this may be the oxidation mentioned above.) I have a couple marks on the bracelet - though I'm pretty sure one is a scratch - but that's what a bracelet is supposed to look like. The case remains unblemished, which is also my preference. If it bothers me in a couple years, I'll buy a new bracelet and it'll hopefully look brand new again.

Beyond that, I have a friend who's got a couple RZE and similar watches that are hardened titanium - there are zero scratches to be found anywhere on those things, and he'll wear them camping, riding, etc. IMO it's the best solution for any kind of tool watch: lightness plus tough.

Titanium... tricky. Grade 2 titanium is considered to be commercially pure titanium. Grade 5 titanium is an alloy of titanium with aluminium and vanadium. Grade 5 titanium is considered to be the most common aerospace grade alloy of titanium. It is harder, much more difficult to machine (expensive to machine) and has a much higher tensile strength. You pick the material that best suits your needs so Grade 5 for the Bel Canto where resonance was required but this also necessitated a simpler case design. Light catcher cases require more shapes and finishes so you choose Grade 2.

The best comparison I could find (and even this required some conversions was to use the Rockwell B test. A higher number is better

Grade 2 (Ti) = 80
Grade 5 (Ti) = 112
316L stainless = 79

So on a simple comparison Grade 2 is about as hard/scratch resistant as stainless steel. CW could coat or treat their grade 2 titanium but will you pay for it? Thought not.

JAFO wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 6:41 pm I have the oris aquis titanium which is notable lighter, and maybe a little more grey in colour, although it's brushed, not polished. I'm tending to wear it on rubber though. I don't think a casual glance would idetnify it as "not steel".

Oh, nice. I'm considering picking one up. How long have you had it, and how are you enjoying it thus far? My Aquis GMT is probably my most-worn watch, I just wish it was a tad lighter (well, I also wish it had on the fly microadjust for the bracelet, but that's a different conversation...)

JAFO wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 9:39 pm [...]I took it off the bracelet, though, and just wear rubber straps. Some reasonable ones in Ali X.. Very comfortable. It's a large watch, but wears well with the short lug to lug, and it's fine with my 7.5 inch wrist. .@missF had a gorgeous pale green one for sale recently. I don't know if she has sold it.

I wish there were (or had been for me) a short cut to the knowledge that essentially all the non-OEM rubber straps from online retailers are available on Ali X at a fraction of the price. And I do mean exactly the same -- the retailers just pay the extra option for a bulk purchase with their logo lasered onto the buckle.

I just read the digital copy of Loupe and also perhaps a hint of a new C11 Makaira. Would be interesting for me, I’ve owned 6 of them I think, would prefer a slightly daintier updated model though.