I don’t think Cellini (named after a C16th Italian goldsmith & sculptor) was ever an entry level range. It’s Rolex’s dress watch range.

When Wilsdorf came up with “Rolex” it was around the time when manufacturers of all kinds of goods were beginning to add -EX on brand and product names, possibly in order to reflect Latin and pseudo-Latin words: Amplex, Kleenex, Timex…

The morpheme “ROL” occurs across several languages. “Horologium” was a timekeeping device in Latin, and gives us “horology” as well as “orologio” and “roloi”, the respective Italian and Greek words for watch/clock. (The French, Spanish and Portuguese words also contain it in a recognisable form, though it is slightly different because of changes these languages were undergoing in the later Middle Ages)

Anyway, I firmly believe Wilsdorf might have had this in mind, but I’ve never seen definitive proof either way.

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 9:39 am
And yes, the filter system can be very useful; I’ve used it before now when trying to find a particular strap, for instance.

Sometimes it is the only way to find certain models. The back end still has a few bugs in it.

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 9:00 pm I don’t think Cellini (named after a C16th Italian goldsmith & sculptor) was ever an entry level range. It’s Rolex’s dress watch range.

When Wilsdorf came up with “Rolex” it was around the time when manufacturers of all kinds of goods were beginning to add -EX on brand and product names, possibly in order to reflect Latin and pseudo-Latin words: Amplex, Kleenex, Timex…

The morpheme “ROL” occurs across several languages. “Horologium” was a timekeeping device in Latin, and gives us “horology” as well as “orologio” and “roloi”, the respective Italian and Greek words for watch/clock. (The French, Spanish and Portuguese words also contain it in a recognisable form, though it is slightly different because of changes these languages were undergoing in the later Middle Ages)

Anyway, I firmly believe Wilsdorf might have had this in mind, but I’ve never seen definitive proof either way.

I was just thinking that maybe Rolex people liked the sound of "Cellini" as an upmarket brand name.

Bahnstormer_vRS wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 10:36 pm


It looks like CW is already there.

Guy

Nicely done by CW. A small shift in that direction.

I'm surprised they haven't added a a quick menu option for their "CWE" watch range on their landing page menu.

JAFO wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 9:37 pm I was just thinking that maybe Rolex people liked the sound of "Cellini" as an upmarket brand name.

They may well have done, but Benvenuto Cellini was certainly real enough and was active in High Renaissance Italian art.

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 9:00 pm When Wilsdorf came up with “Rolex” it was around the time when manufacturers of all kinds of goods were beginning to add -EX on brand and product names, possibly in order to reflect Latin and pseudo-Latin words: Amplex, Kleenex, Timex…

I always enjoy your linguistic insights Steve. Now I wonder about the etymology of the brand name “Rolwatco”…

Isn't Tudor the "budget Rolex" part of the company? Or is Tudor completely independent?

timepieces_and_bags wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 4:35 am

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 9:00 pm When Wilsdorf came up with “Rolex” it was around the time when manufacturers of all kinds of goods were beginning to add -EX on brand and product names, possibly in order to reflect Latin and pseudo-Latin words: Amplex, Kleenex, Timex…

I always enjoy your linguistic insights Steve. Now I wonder about the etymology of the brand name “Rolwatco”…

Steve, I'd also like to thank you for your insight. I had the question "But why Rolex?" in my mind but didn't get around to posting it.

JAFO wrote: ↑Mon Nov 25, 2024 9:37 pm I was just thinking that maybe Rolex people liked the sound of "Cellini" as an upmarket brand name.

Well if that’s the case, it just goes to show that…

Rolex customers aren’t interested in an upmarket brand name! They prefer robustness, simplicity and functionality…

The Cellini was perhaps the most difficult to sell of any Rolex model and was finally put out of its misery a few years ago.

Neil

nbg wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2024 9:39 am The Cellini was perhaps the most difficult to sell of any Rolex model and was finally put out of its misery a few years ago.

Replaced to some extent by the 1908?

This discussion highlights the crucial importance of brand and product names though, doesn’t it. And by extension, when it comes to luxury products, storytelling. Of course, CW is a luxury product in that noone really needs a watch anymore.

Speaking for me, as a non-native English speaker, Christopher Ward is ok as a brand name. Not sounding very exclusive, but neither generic. Personally I’ve had more trouble with the logo design, not the name. Designing a good logo must be fiendishly difficult! The twin flags logo is not bad, but it is somewhat ‘cold and clinical’. For my money the best logos simply use proprietary typography.

So no, I see no need to change the name (and I agree with the many reasons given), but I would like to see a return to the full Christopher Ward name in a typography fit for where the brand wants to position itself in the market and taking full advantage of its English roots.

Perhaps they should French-ify the name to make it more posh for those who perceive “Christopher Ward” to be too plain and stodgy and English. Were it “Christof Wardeaux” they would instantly be on the same playing field as Journe and Chopard, no?

Wis wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2024 5:46 pm This discussion highlights the crucial importance of brand and product names though, doesn’t it. And by extension, when it comes to luxury products, storytelling.

Personally I’ve had more trouble with the logo design, not the name. Designing a good logo must be fiendishly difficult! The twin flags logo is not bad, but it is somewhat ‘cold and clinical’. For my money the best logos simply use proprietary typography.

So no, I see no need to change the name (and I agree with the many reasons given), but I would like to see a return to the full Christopher Ward name in a typography fit for where the brand wants to position itself in the market and taking full advantage of its English roots.

I agree with all that you have said, Bjørn. However, a return to the full name would be tricky on the dial don’t you think? A large part of the problem is a lengthy 11 character first name followed by a short 4 word surname. It lends itself to imbalance. I think the current twin flags is good, with the name left for the caseback.

I’ve always liked the Elliot Brown logo which I think is very well thought out. The name is an amalgamation of the two founders, Ian Elliot and Alex Brown. Clearly there is only a character difference between the two names which affords great dial balance. Both names can sit side by side in a single line of text. Then, throw in a very clever piece of design, and you can have a depiction of each founder’s surname initial contained within a simple yet effective crest.

Back to CW, I think they’ve done as well as they probably can with what is a tricky name for a watch dial. These days there’s a lot more talk about CW’s watchmaking prowess which seems rightly justified.

Wis wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2024 5:46 pm

So no, I see no need to change the name (and I agree with the many reasons given), but I would like to see a return to the full Christopher Ward name in a typography fit for where the brand wants to position itself in the market and taking full advantage of its English roots.

A bit like the original name and logo, then

^^^ I guess. Maybe a bit more je ne sais quoi, though.

@strapline Regarding the name being unbalanced (front heavy), there must be a way around that? But I respect that the brand itself has tried and abandonded that concept, probably with some data to back it up. Still, I would love to see what could be done with the full name.