Dixie Watch Company.

Not sure that would increase U.S. sales ... And Mr Dean apparently hated the "Dixie" thing.

Interesting the this re-branding discussion should come just as Jaguar Cars are re-branding. Doesn't seem to be going too well from what I've seem (although "Jaguar" is itself a re-brand, though for understandable reasons).

CW have spent 20 years building the brand. Plenty of examples (we've been here before) of companies continuing with the original name long after the founders have left - McDonald's being just one international example. Doesn't seem to have done them any harm.

exHowfener wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 2:00 pm

Dixie Watch Company.

Not sure that would increase U.S. sales ... And Mr Dean apparently hated the "Dixie" thing.

Interesting the this re-branding discussion should come just as Jaguar Cars are re-branding. Doesn't seem to be going too well from what I've seem (although "Jaguar" is itself a re-brand, though for understandable reasons).

CW have spent 20 years building the brand. Plenty of examples (we've been here before) of companies continuing with the original name long after the founders have left - McDonald's being just one international example. Doesn't seem to have done them any harm.

You have been here long enough to know when a post of mine is not taking something seriously.

My sensible answer was the one I gave further up the thread.

Neil

golfjunky wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 9:56 am I bet that MF would love to change it

If they change the name to MF they should hire Samual L Jackson…”Are you tired of these MFing customer service issues with these MF watches!”

As for a name change, I’m no marketing expert, but I don’t see the name as a problem. The priority right now needs to be resolving lingering CS issues.

If they change the name to MF they should hire Samual L Jackson…”Are you tired of these MFing customer service issues with these MF watches!”

Reminds me of the Warburtons bread advert Which you probably haven't seen, but it's on YT.

When it comes to British luxury watch brands using a founder’s name for their brand name, Christopher Ward is hardly alone. William Wood, Arnold & Son, Graham & Robert Loomes all come to mind. Several of those brands trace their beginning to the named founder that has been gone a long time. In the case of William Wood, the brand proudly celebrates the founder’s grandfather’s firefighting heritage. I can throw in another brand that uses the name of a founder with a name that isn’t brief to put on a dial, Raymond Weil. Now that Raymond Weil’s grandson is in charge, are the brand’s fans clamoring for the name to be changed to Elie Bernheim? All of these watch companies are not bashful about putting their brand name prominently on their watch dials. I have never understood the pushback against Christopher Ward doing the same but have no objection to the twin flag logo if that makes it easier for CW to sell watches. On a personal note, I discovered Christopher Ward six years ago by Googling “British luxury watch brands” as I was aware of the country’s horology history but didn’t know how many companies were still in business. I was intrigued by the name, Christopher Ward, enough to check the brand out & discover their value proposition. As Drew alludes with his Samuel L Jackson quip, I might have drawn a different initial impression if it had been MF!

Delmar

timepieces_and_bags wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 12:06 pm

nbg wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 10:26 am “…The new brand name will be decided upon by a bunch of random folk who post about watches on an Internet forum”.

I had the same thought. As a luxury brand I think “Wardy McWardFace” is perfect.

Seriously though… I’m inclined to think the name is fine. Plenty of other watch companies are named after founders without a problem. Perhaps just because it’s an English name and we’re (I assume) mostly native English speakers on the forum, we find it sounds less exotic and ‘luxury’ than a French or Swiss name, for example.

I’m also not sure the current range is really that wide in terms of price points. The most expensive model is just over 7x the cheapest. Without going through every brand, instinct tells me that’s not very wide compared to others. So I’d question whether an offshoot is really necessary.

Finally, I’m not sure how differentiated a premium offshoot would be if generated by the main brand. To use a car analogy: While Porsche is owned by VW, it’s luxury in its own right, since it existed beforehand. But in my mind a Lexus is still just a more expensive Toyota (with apologies to any Lexus owners…)

Being named after a founder can be a strong asset, but in this case, the founder's name sounds very plain and overly generic. You put it perfectly well in your post - the name just doesn't sound exotic and luxurious enough.

The name is so unremarkable that it could easily be mistaken for one of those Chinese brands that pick a basic, Western/English-sounding names. Of course, that’s not the case here, but it highlights the point: the name itself doesn’t convey a sense of uniqueness or exclusivity. And as if today nobody buys a CW watch just because of the brand name. They're simply not there yet!

CW has undeniably done an excellent job over the past 20 years, earning respect and recognition but mainly among watch enthusiasts. With standout models like the Bel Canto and their other higher-priced watches gaining traction, I believe the "CW" initials alone might serve them better—more concise and iconic.

That said, I do appreciate their approach to branding. The absence of Christopher Ward on the dials, or just the understated twin-flag logo, is a classy and effective choice. It complements their brand identity without overshadowing their craftsmanship.

I was never anti the CW name. I have CWs with the nine o clock name brand, one with a 12 o'clock name brand and 2 C7s that had a first attempt at an applied twin flags logo. I like them all.

I do think that if the brand name is such that potential watch buyers are deterred by it, and it has reached such a stage that the company will no longer put the name on the dial, then the name has to be regarded as a problem. I am sure Rolex and Omega would be recognisable with just their logo, but I doubt they would dispense with the name.

I would be inclined to rebrand as CW, although these 2 letter names seem a little Mall-watch, so maybe it's better not make another mistake.

CW can't keep changing their identity year after year though, so maybe they need to leave it for a few years.

JAFO wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 7:32 pm I was never anti the CW name. I have CWs with the nine o clock name brand, one with a 12 o'clock name brand and 2 C7s that had a first attempt at an applied twin flags logo. I like them all.

I do think that if the brand name is such that potential watch buyers are deterred by it, and it has reached such a stage that the company will no longer put the name on the dial, then the name has to be regarded as a problem. I am sure Rolex and Omega would be recognisable with just their logo, but I doubt they would dispense with the name.

I would be inclined to rebrand as CW, although these 2 letter names seem a little Mall-watch, so maybe it's better not make another mistake.

CW can't keep changing their identity year after year though, so maybe they need to leave it for a few years.

I agree that now might not be the ideal time to rebrand as "CW." However, if they continue on their current trajectory, I can see them developing two distinct customer bases in the future.

I personally love the Twelve Titanium, the Moonphase, and, of course, the Bel Canto. In fact, it was the Bel Canto that drew me to the brand. However, I find it hard to get excited about their more mainstream "bread-and-butter" models—they just don’t resonate with me. If they keep producing standout pieces like the Bel Canto, I could see the brand naturally evolving into two distinct lines under the same umbrella.

At this point, I’d place the Bel Canto in the category of strong mid-tier watches, capable of competing with brands like Tudor and Cartier for my money. For example, if I only could spend my money on one watch I’d personally choose the Bel Canto over something like the Cartier Santos—it offers more appeal for my money.

Now, imagine a Bel Canto in two-tone or solid gold, paired with an upgraded luxurious bracelet. That would elevate it to a true high-end luxury watch. If they pursue such a direction in the future—or if someone customizes a Bel Canto through their bespoke program in gold—I believe it could push the brand firmly into the luxury tier.

The more I think about it, the more I love the idea of a gold Bel Canto Classic.

HAYQ wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 12:34 am
Christopher Ward was founded on the principle of delivering value through affordable, well-crafted watches. However, recent releases like the Bel Canto, Titanium Twelve, and Moonphase signal a shift. CW is edging beyond the sub-€2,000 category, moving into the mid-tier market, and perhaps even flirting with the luxury segment.

The Bel Canto, in particular, has showcased their capability to produce something extraordinary. Had this watch been released by an established luxury brand, it could easily have sold for 3–5 times the price. This raises the question: could CW evolve into a true luxury brand in the future?

One possibility I see is CW creating two distinct lines—one focusing on high-end luxury pieces, the other maintaining their core mission of accessible, everyday watches. However, one of their biggest hurdle may be their name.

While the name Christopher Ward evokes their British heritage, it also comes across as somewhat generic and lacking the cachet associated with luxury watchmaking.

Value and Luxury are defined by the individual: one person might explain the BelCanto as a "Luxury" timepiece but the next person might describe it as a "Value" timepiece. Another example is one might consider a personal chef a "luxury" whereas another (even if they have the same income and net worth) might consider it a necessity. The terms "value" and "luxury" are thrown around in the watch industry but rarely is a detailed definition attached to them. Why is above the "€2,000" mid-tier? Why that dollar amount?

I think creating a secondary brand higher-end than the first is never easy. There are so many examples of both success and failure in the automobile industry. Lexus (Toyota) was the first and did it well. It also worked for Acura (Honda) and Genesis (Hyundai/Kia). But even 100 years later it is not working out well for some brands Chevrolet, Buick (almost dead), Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Cadillac. Another example is Ford, Mercury, Lincoln. How about Dodge, Chrysler (almost dead), Plymouth and the ongoing demise of their brands.

Think about Seiko and Grand Seiko. Except for most watch enthusiasts, the average John/Jane consumer does not get it. There is no reason why CWL can't sell watches at many price points even though they have always promoted themselves as a "value" brand with 3x cost policy.

As for the name, I can't remember where I heard or read it but MF has always been very clear that CW's name was chose because "it sounded the most English" and they wanted to be known as an "English watchmaker brand". Who cares that CW is no longer with the brand.

I will add that I have been following CWL for several years and while I really liked the watches, I could not get past the logo style which had nothing to do with the actual brand name. It was not until the twin-flags logo did I decided to become an owner. This may not matter to others but while I have worked most of my career in IT, my undergraduate degree (Bachelor of Fine Arts) and some other training is in 2D Design, typography, logo design, and 3D modeling. I am not an expert but I truly hated every logotype before the twin-flags; I can tolerate the twin-flags enough to have made a purchase but it is still not what I would call "good design".

Logos and branding are updated on an ongoing basis with some good updates and some bad ones. Look at the newest Burger King logo versus some older ones (good design choice according to design industry experts). Look at the current UPS log (first, bad update) when compared to the previous (second, good design according to design industry experts).

HAYQ wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 7:02 pm Being named after a founder can be a strong asset, but in this case, the founder's name sounds very plain and overly generic. You put it perfectly well in your post - the name just doesn't sound exotic and luxurious enough.

The name is so unremarkable that it could easily be mistaken for one of those Chinese brands that pick a basic, Western/English-sounding names. Of course, that’s not the case here, but it highlights the point: the name itself doesn’t convey a sense of uniqueness or exclusivity.

Isn’t it the case, though, that many names sound very ordinary in their language of origin, and yet are exotic to the ears of those who don’t speak that particular language? Now, I have no idea how exotic (or not) Roger Smith sounds to an Italian. Maybe he should call himself Ruggero Fabbra?

If someone said to me “Crow and Nephews” I might have thought of some small-town Dickensian family firm of lawyers and articled clerks. Not very romantic. Whereas “Cuervo y Sobrinos” as a watch brand probably sounds rather exciting to non-Spanish speaking people.

Or imagine all those wonderful Italian operas by Joe Green…sorry, Giuseppe Verdi?

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 8:45 pm

HAYQ wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 7:02 pm Being named after a founder can be a strong asset, but in this case, the founder's name sounds very plain and overly generic. You put it perfectly well in your post - the name just doesn't sound exotic and luxurious enough.

The name is so unremarkable that it could easily be mistaken for one of those Chinese brands that pick a basic, Western/English-sounding names. Of course, that’s not the case here, but it highlights the point: the name itself doesn’t convey a sense of uniqueness or exclusivity.

Isn’t it the case, though, that many names sound very ordinary in their language of origin, and yet are exotic to the ears of those who don’t speak that particular language. Now, I have no idea how exotic (or not) Roger Smith sounds to an Italian. Maybe he should call himself Ruggero Fabbra?

If someone said to me “Crow and Nephews” I might have thought of some small-town Dickensian family firm of lawyers and articled clerks. Not very romantic. Whereas “Cuervo y Sobrinos” as a watch brand probably sounds rather exciting to non-Spanish speaking people.

Or imagine all those wonderful Italian operas by Joe Green…sorry, Giuseppe Verdi?

All your examples - Joe Green, Crow and Nephews etc - they all sound so much more sexy and luxurious in Romance languages.
I`m not a native English speaker but I don`t know for some reason Christopher Ward sounds too generic to me. But I do get your point so maybe for other non English speakers this generic English name might sound exclusive enough.

Speaking of CW being a proud English brand, it’s interesting that all their color names—verde, azurro, argento, oro—are in Italian. What happened to sticking with a British identity and naming the colors accordingly? Like for example Emerald Green, Royal Blue, Sterling Silver and Golden Dawn. Or Mayfair Emerald, Hampton Sapphire, Silver Frost and Cotswold Gold.

HAYQ wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 9:15 pm Speaking of CW being a proud English brand, it’s interesting that all their color names—verde, azurro, argento, oro—are in Italian.

Not all. Those colours are used specifically for the Bel Canto, I believe. The name of which is, of course, Italian.

Some of the colours in the C 63 range are known as Acer Red, New Forest Yellow, and Foxglove.

Amor Vincit Omnia wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 9:23 pm

HAYQ wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 9:15 pm Speaking of CW being a proud English brand, it’s interesting that all their color names—verde, azurro, argento, oro—are in Italian.

Not all. Those colours are used specifically for the Bel Canto, I believe. The name of which is, of course, Italian.

Some of the colours in the C 63 range are known as Acer Red, New Forest Yellow, and Foxglove.

You're right. I haven't really paid that much attention to their other watches - I see now that the colour names are English in other models.

Best thing they did was remove the "Christopher Ward" name from the dials. The twin flags logo is excellent.

It's ok on the back, but if CW changed their brand name to "CW", I'd be perfectly happy with that. But it's not a big deal.

Perhaps they will create a higher end offshoot in time, ala Grand Seiko vs Seiko. That would give an opportunity to consider alternatives.

I'll just pick up on one point of @HAYQ's opening post;-

HAYQ wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2024 12:34 am . . . . . . . .

One possibility I see is CW creating two distinct lines—one focusing on high-end luxury pieces, the other maintaining their core mission of accessible, everyday watches. However, one of their biggest hurdle may be their name.

. . . . . . . . .

. . as I recall an email from CW of just last week, November 17th.




The link on the email takes you to;- The connoisseur's choice


It looks like CW is already there.

Guy