Case "hardness"?
- ndabunka
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Case "hardness"?
I was at a jewelry store today (non watch-related trip) but did engaged a salesperson in discussion regarding differing the values of differing watches. After discussing movements he stated that the Omega and certain other higher-priced watches had "harder" cases than others. Indicating that (somehow) the stainless used in those brands was "harder" than the stainless used in other...a-hem... lower cost models. Has anyone here ever heard of such a claim? Are there differing hardness levels? If so, where do the CW watches fall into such a scale? Personally, I think it was simply another "attempt" of attributing "value" to a more expensive watch.
PS - This discussion did not occur at one of the "high & mighty" jewelry stores but rather was at a Jarads (slightly above mall quality if you ask my opinion but they were convenient for a Pandora bracelet at the time).
PS - This discussion did not occur at one of the "high & mighty" jewelry stores but rather was at a Jarads (slightly above mall quality if you ask my opinion but they were convenient for a Pandora bracelet at the time).
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Re: Case "hardness"?
I do know that a metal can start as being quite brittle and you temper it (heating and mixing) this makes it stronger (don't know the science. wikipedia may help). The Japanese heated and folded steel many times to make it harder when making swords. There may be some truth but not sure if it is that much of a difference between companies.
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Re: Case "hardness"?
Some watches do have cases made with hardened steel.
Sinn, for instance, use tegimented steel "The Tegiment layer has a hardness of 1200 Vickers which is five times harder than standard steel (and on some Sinn models even higher - up to nine times..." . That is well hard, but remember this is a layer on the steel, not the steel substrate itself.
Damasko's "patented ice-hardened martensitic steel" is explained a bit here. This is the steel case itself. They put a 3300vickers layer on one of their bezels
The Vickers hardness of 316L stainless steel is 140HV30 but that seems to be quoted as a single number in most places (around 300??)
I have no idea if Omega have any watches made with hardened steel.
Sinn, for instance, use tegimented steel "The Tegiment layer has a hardness of 1200 Vickers which is five times harder than standard steel (and on some Sinn models even higher - up to nine times..." . That is well hard, but remember this is a layer on the steel, not the steel substrate itself.
Damasko's "patented ice-hardened martensitic steel" is explained a bit here. This is the steel case itself. They put a 3300vickers layer on one of their bezels
The Vickers hardness of 316L stainless steel is 140HV30 but that seems to be quoted as a single number in most places (around 300??)
I have no idea if Omega have any watches made with hardened steel.
Dom
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- xtriple
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Re: Case "hardness"?
Think Omega are all 316 whereas Rolex are all 9xx (can't remember ) which is both harder and brighter.Loddonite wrote:Some watches do have cases made with hardened steel.
Sinn, for instance, use tegimented steel "The Tegiment layer has a hardness of 1200 Vickers which is five times harder than standard steel (and on some Sinn models even higher - up to nine times..."
Damasko's "patented ice-hardened martensitic steel" is explained a bit here.
I have no idea if Omega have any watches made with hardened steel.
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Re: Case "hardness"?
904Lxtriple wrote:Think Omega are all 316 whereas Rolex are all 9xx (can't remember ) which is both harder and brighter.
I read up on it a long time ago and don't remember it at all well. I think it is more scratch resistant than 316L, though a similar hardness, resists acid better (who dives in acid?), has less nickel and better marketing.
Dom
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- ianblyth
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Re: Case "hardness"?
Different levels of steel but most use 316L Surgical Grade stainless. The fact they have a name for it shows that there are different grades. And how you treat it afterwards.
Sinn use a process called TEGIMENT to harden their steel.
http://www.sinn.de/en/TEGIMENT.htm
http://www.bremont.com/why.php
Sinn use a process called TEGIMENT to harden their steel.
http://www.sinn.de/en/TEGIMENT.htm
BremontThe watch case case hardened using TEGIMENT Technology provides extremely effective protection from scratches on the case surface. To achieve this, we do not apply any coatings of foreign materials; rather, the surface of the watch case itself is hardened in a special process.
To keep the cases of our watches in the best possible condition when they are worn, SINN uses the TEGIMENT Technology for several models. A TEGIMENT stainless steel case has a surface hardness of approximately 1200 Vickers. This value corresponds roughly to the hardness of commonly used zirconium oxide ceramics. By comparison, an unhardened stainless steel case has a hardness of approximately 220 Vickers.
http://www.bremont.com/why.php
All Bremont watches are made from the specially hardened steel taking the case up to 2000 vickers in hardness. The cases are treated and finished using proprietary systems in the UK and Switzerland.
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- Russ-Shettle
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Re: Case "hardness"?
Thanks for the wikipedia line. My watch is made better than I thought.JAG wrote:I thought 316 was 316 never heard of different strengths Surgical stainless steel
316 stainless steel are the bracelets here and the most common SS used for jewelry and watches.
Surgical Grade stainless steel are the cases by CW.
There are many grades and variations of mixtures that make of all stainless steel. Surgical Grade is very specific. Click Jag's link. What more can you ask for? It is beautiful, Cro-molly hard, nickel polished and chromium scratch resistant, the mixtures of surgical grade stainless. My 700 has got a magnificent polished finish.
- ndabunka
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Re: Case "hardness"?
Apparently ..."There are over 150 grades of stainless steel, of which fifteen are most commonly used."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stainless_steel
Linked link from original Stainless link provided above
PS - Omega was the "premium" watch in question so apparently he understands that case has "some" type of hardening. Not certain if such hardening is actually needed in a watch though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stainless_steel
Linked link from original Stainless link provided above
PS - Omega was the "premium" watch in question so apparently he understands that case has "some" type of hardening. Not certain if such hardening is actually needed in a watch though.
The 3 C's of life: choices, chances, change. You have to make a choice to take a chance or your life will never change!
If you don't make a choice, the choice makes you...
If you don't make a choice, the choice makes you...
- Russ-Shettle
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Re: Case "hardness"?
Yes and for most jewelry, I believe it's 316 as with CW's bracelets. The watch case is a different animal.ndabunka wrote:Apparently ..."There are over 150 grades of stainless steel, of which fifteen are most commonly used."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stainless_steel
Linked link from original Stainless link provided above
PS - Omega was the "premium" watch in question so apparently he understands that case has "some" type of hardening. Not certain if such hardening is actually needed in a watch though.
- 28800bph
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Re: Case "hardness"?
Almost every stainless watch is 316 alloy. It is non-hardenable by heat treatment. It's all essentially the same hardness unless it is treated with a case hardening process like Sinn, Dievas, or Bremont. Damasko uses a much harder steel called Cronidur 30. 904 stainless from Rolex is not much different hardness vs. 316.
I wrote a series of several technical posts about hardness of 316, Rolex 904, Sinn's submarine steel, Damasko's steel, Bremont cases, and ceramic cases here (I'm TrickTock on WUS): http://forums.watchuseek.com/f24/316l-v ... 62046.html
I wrote a series of several technical posts about hardness of 316, Rolex 904, Sinn's submarine steel, Damasko's steel, Bremont cases, and ceramic cases here (I'm TrickTock on WUS): http://forums.watchuseek.com/f24/316l-v ... 62046.html
- Phil0886
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Re: Case "hardness"?
Having read the posts I can see why, seriously impressive stuff!!by JAG » Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:56 am
You are my Dalai Lama when it comes to all that beats or ticks i will look forward to reading it when i am awake !28800bph wrote:
Almost every stainless watch is 316 alloy. It is non-hardenable by heat treatment. It's all essentially the same hardness unless it is treated with a case hardening process like Sinn, Dievas, or Bremont. Damasko uses a much harder steel called Cronidur 30. 904 stainless from Rolex is not much different hardness vs. 316.
I wrote a series of several technical posts about hardness of 316, Rolex 904, Sinn's submarine steel, Damasko's steel, Bremont cases, and ceramic cases here (I'm TrickTock on WUS): http://forums.watchuseek.com/f24/316l-v ... 62046.html
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Non-CW: Rolex Sub ND, Panerai PAM 312, Grand Seiko SBGM027, Omega AT, Omega PO, Heuer Monza, Maurice Lacroix Pontos S, San Martin 62MAS, HIMQ Marinemaster.
Non-CW: Rolex Sub ND, Panerai PAM 312, Grand Seiko SBGM027, Omega AT, Omega PO, Heuer Monza, Maurice Lacroix Pontos S, San Martin 62MAS, HIMQ Marinemaster.
- footycrazy
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Re: Case "hardness"?
Dievas 6 steel is quite an interesting process.....info and a short video below.
http://www.dievaswatches.com/Dievas6Ste ... ology.html
http://www.dievaswatches.com/Dievas6Ste ... ology.html
Graham
Re: Case "hardness"?
Very interesting stuff Mr 28800. Thanks for posting the link.28800bph wrote:Almost every stainless watch is 316 alloy. It is non-hardenable by heat treatment. It's all essentially the same hardness unless it is treated with a case hardening process like Sinn, Dievas, or Bremont. Damasko uses a much harder steel called Cronidur 30. 904 stainless from Rolex is not much different hardness vs. 316.
I wrote a series of several technical posts about hardness of 316, Rolex 904, Sinn's submarine steel, Damasko's steel, Bremont cases, and ceramic cases here (I'm TrickTock on WUS): http://forums.watchuseek.com/f24/316l-v ... 62046.html
I have to say my Damasko feels seriously 'hard', and I'm sure it would take a hell of a knock to mark the case. On top of that, the texture of the case is very tactile.
Richard
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Re: Case "hardness"?
It takes a licking but it "quick ticking" (Old Timex commercial) Lost my hammer and used my very very hard watch case to drive some nails. Not a scratch on the case! Anyone know the time?JAG wrote:28800bph wrote:Almost every stainless watch is 316 alloy. It is non-hardenable by heat treatment. It's all essentially the same hardness unless it is treated with a case hardening process like Sinn, Dievas, or Bremont. Damasko uses a much harder steel called Cronidur 30. 904 stainless from Rolex is not much different hardness vs. 316.
I wrote a series of several technical posts about hardness of 316, Rolex 904, Sinn's submarine steel, Damasko's steel, Bremont cases, and ceramic cases here (I'm TrickTock on WUS): http://forums.watchuseek.com/f24/316l-v ... 62046.html
You are my Dalai Lama when it comes to all that beats or ticks i will look forward to reading it when i am awake !
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