Bel Canto watches@

aalinalex · Post by **aalinalex** » Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:12 pm

Trs1982 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 12:46 pm For those being told that their updated delivery date is June 2024, when did you place orders?

Reason I ask is that to order one now, the website states deliver of June 2024 so judging by the comments in this thread, I imagine that's probably unrealistic?

Very very disappointing for me to have ordered and paid 30% deposit for the the C1 on May 1st, 2023 with delivery showed on the website as Dec23, email confirmed for Feb24 and now to be rescheduled for June 2024 similarly as for a new order placed today on the website.

Spytap · Post by **Spytap** » Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:57 pm

JasH wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 9:26 pm
Bahnstormer_vRS wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 12:31 pm

Your price is fixed, regardless of the eventual delivery date.

Compare this with a multitude of other watch brands, where one has to go on a wait list for an extended period of time; you pay the price on delivery.

Or indeed car brands e.g. Lotus with the Emira.

An Emira deposit was $1000 with no finalized price - you were paying for the opportunity to order, with the deposit being deducted from the eventual total. Bel Cantos had a final price that you were paying a percentage of agreed upon total. This isn’t some favor they’re granting - CW cannot change the terms of your contract after payment has been accepted.

Trs1982 · Post by **Trs1982** » Sun Aug 06, 2023 4:34 pm

aalinalex wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:12 pm
Trs1982 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 12:46 pm For those being told that their updated delivery date is June 2024, when did you place orders?

Reason I ask is that to order one now, the website states deliver of June 2024 so judging by the comments in this thread, I imagine that's probably unrealistic?
Very very disappointing for me to have ordered and paid 30% deposit for the the C1 on May 1st, 2023 with delivery showed on the website as Dec23, email confirmed for Feb24 and now to be rescheduled for June 2024 similarly as for a new order placed today on the website.

Six months extension is quite a stretch, and while I appreciate what others have been saying, it’s not a great experience for those who have £1000 tied up. Is it taking the shine off the impending new-watch feeling and making you possibly reconsider?

It makes me wonder if the estimated delivery date of June 2024 on new orders is actually realistic or achievable now if December orders have been pushed back six months.

Spytap · Post by **Spytap** » Tue Aug 08, 2023 4:27 am

Trs1982 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 4:34 pm
aalinalex wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:12 pm
Trs1982 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 12:46 pm For those being told that their updated delivery date is June 2024, when did you place orders?

Reason I ask is that to order one now, the website states deliver of June 2024 so judging by the comments in this thread, I imagine that's probably unrealistic?
Very very disappointing for me to have ordered and paid 30% deposit for the the C1 on May 1st, 2023 with delivery showed on the website as Dec23, email confirmed for Feb24 and now to be rescheduled for June 2024 similarly as for a new order placed today on the website.
Six months extension is quite a stretch, and while I appreciate what others have been saying, it’s not a great experience for those who have £1000 tied up. Is it taking the shine off the impending new-watch feeling and making you possibly reconsider?

It makes me wonder if the estimated delivery date of June 2024 on new orders is actually realistic or achievable now if December orders have been pushed back six months.

If I’m honest, it is taking the shine off of it a little. I originally paid in December. I was hoping to take it on a trip in July. I figured seven months for an announced product from CW was enough. With my June delivery date given, I colormatched a new suit and shirt to bring it along. And then … silence. For months. I kind of knew from around May that it wasn’t going to happen, but I was still assured by CW that “As of now that June date is still on track.” But it wasn’t, and it wasn’t even close. So it’s kind of been a **** customer experience.

Am I still excited? Yeah, some. But a lot less. As I said before, my new date is October, but I don’t believe it’ll actually get here in October either. So I kind wish I’d just bought a Cartier Tank XL or Grand Seiko or Pelagos 39 for the trip instead, because I’d have spent around the same amount, and would have been able to wear that watch for the past nine months. And that ultimately was the sole reason I decided not to order a TI Twelve: I have no faith it would be delivered this year.

NigelS · Post by **NigelS** » Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:03 am

Could delays - and some quality issues - be because CW have achieved a very laudable 300% growth in turnover in the last four years, but have only increased staffing levels by 30%?? Everyone's working their butts off back at base!

Mikkei4 · Post by **Mikkei4** » Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:24 am

NigelS wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:03 am Could delays - and some quality issues - be because CW have achieved a very laudable 300% growth in turnover in the last four years, but have only increased staffing levels by 30%?? Everyone's working their butts off back at base!

Are the Bel Canto delays due to issues in production so before it gets to the staff back at base ?

nbg · Post by **nbg** » Tue Aug 08, 2023 12:01 pm

NigelS wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:03 am Could delays - and some quality issues - be because CW have achieved a very laudable 300% growth in turnover in the last four years, but have only increased staffing levels by 30%?? Everyone's working their butts off back at base!

300%?

Do you have a link to the source please?

An increase of 300% is not in line with the trend of the reported accounts for the years ended 31 March 2019 to 31 March 2022. I don’t think that the accounts to 31 March 2023 have yet been filed, but if the accounts for that year do indicate a 300% increase in turnover compared to y/e 31 March 2019 that will be a fantastic achievement and CW are to be applauded.

Perhaps due to the extra awareness of the brand following the release of the Bel Canto.

Neil

NigelS · Post by **NigelS** » Tue Aug 08, 2023 12:38 pm

nbg wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 12:01 pm
NigelS wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:03 am Could delays - and some quality issues - be because CW have achieved a very laudable 300% growth in turnover in the last four years, but have only increased staffing levels by 30%?? Everyone's working their butts off back at base!
An increase of 300% is not in line with the trend of the reported accounts for the years ended 31 March 2019 to 31 March 2022. I don’t think that the accounts to 31 March 2023 have yet been filed, but if the accounts for that year do indicate a 300% increase in turnover compared to y/e 31 March 2019 that will be a fantastic achievement and CW are to be applauded.

Wrote down the figures when I researched CWL at the time I bought my C63 but didn't make a note of the source, could be D&B probably. 2019 t/o £5.67m Staff 44 - 2022 t/o £13.65m Staff 55

nbg · Post by **nbg** » Tue Aug 08, 2023 1:24 pm

NigelS wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 12:38 pm
nbg wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 12:01 pm
NigelS wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:03 am Could delays - and some quality issues - be because CW have achieved a very laudable 300% growth in turnover in the last four years, but have only increased staffing levels by 30%?? Everyone's working their butts off back at base!
An increase of 300% is not in line with the trend of the reported accounts for the years ended 31 March 2019 to 31 March 2022. I don’t think that the accounts to 31 March 2023 have yet been filed, but if the accounts for that year do indicate a 300% increase in turnover compared to y/e 31 March 2019 that will be a fantastic achievement and CW are to be applauded.
Wrote down the figures when I researched CWL at the time I bought my C63 but didn't make a note of the source, could be D&B probably. 2019 t/o £5.67m Staff 44 - 2022 t/o £13.65m Staff 55

Thanks, that explains it. It looks like whilst your 2022 figure is correct the one for 2019 is understated. The accounts to March 2022 as submitted to companies house indicate the following in the KPI section of the strategic report:

2019 £10.445m
2020 £10.563m
2021 £13.215m
2022 £13.649m

Neil

Post by **Amor Vincit Omnia** » Tue Aug 08, 2023 1:31 pm

I’m not sure how you would work it out, but I wonder how the average retail price per unit would have changed during those years?

Post by **Bahnstormer_vRS** » Tue Aug 08, 2023 1:39 pm

nbg wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 1:24 pm
2019 £10.445m
2020 £10.563m
2021 £13.215m
2022 £13.649m

Neil

2023 - post BelCanto - £17,489m perhaps

Calculated at 2022 amount plus £3,200 per watch for 300 x 2 LE Editions, then doubled to allow for open series and not accounting for upturn due to The Twelve et al.

Does that sound right Neil? @nbg

Guy

Jwitr · Post by **Jwitr** » Tue Aug 08, 2023 2:25 pm

Spytap wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 4:27 am
Trs1982 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 4:34 pm
aalinalex wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:12 pm

Very very disappointing for me to have ordered and paid 30% deposit for the the C1 on May 1st, 2023 with delivery showed on the website as Dec23, email confirmed for Feb24 and now to be rescheduled for June 2024 similarly as for a new order placed today on the website.
Six months extension is quite a stretch, and while I appreciate what others have been saying, it’s not a great experience for those who have £1000 tied up. Is it taking the shine off the impending new-watch feeling and making you possibly reconsider?

It makes me wonder if the estimated delivery date of June 2024 on new orders is actually realistic or achievable now if December orders have been pushed back six months.
If I’m honest, it is taking the shine off of it a little. I originally paid in December. I was hoping to take it on a trip in July. I figured seven months for an announced product from CW was enough. With my June delivery date given, I colormatched a new suit and shirt to bring it along. And then … silence. For months. I kind of knew from around May that it wasn’t going to happen, but I was still assured by CW that “As of now that June date is still on track.” But it wasn’t, and it wasn’t even close. So it’s kind of been a **** customer experience.

Am I still excited? Yeah, some. But a lot less. As I said before, my new date is October, but I don’t believe it’ll actually get here in October either. So I kind wish I’d just bought a Cartier Tank XL or Grand Seiko or Pelagos 39 for the trip instead, because I’d have spent around the same amount, and would have been able to wear that watch for the past nine months. And that ultimately was the sole reason I decided not to order a TI Twelve: I have no faith it would be delivered this year.

Similar experience for me unfortunately. This is the second watch of mine on order with CW that has been pushed back. The Bel Canto was due in October as a Bday present to myself but is now not due till Feb next year. Just hoping I don't have the same issue with the Super Compressor

Grand Seiko · Post by **Grand Seiko** » Tue Aug 08, 2023 4:00 pm

NigelS wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:03 am Could delays - and some quality issues - be because CW have achieved a very laudable 300% growth in turnover in the last four years, but have only increased staffing levels by 30%?? Everyone's working their butts off back at base!

As far as I can tell, CW is not a watch maker, they are a design shop and marketing entity.
The issue has been described as strong demand, challenges with manufacturing/quality in general, time required for third parties to hire and train additional staff
Perhaps some of the pressure is being caused by CW not having the right/enough people to oversee their vendors.
What I don't like the most in this is the continuous barrage of email marketing coming from CW.
I have no interest in their other products.
I just want CW to focus on getting the nice folks here, their watches.

Spytap provided a very clear snapshot of his buyer circumstance (very much resonated with me) and it does not reflect well on CW.

NigelS · Post by **NigelS** » Tue Aug 08, 2023 4:44 pm

Grand Seiko wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 4:00 pm
NigelS wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:03 am Could delays - and some quality issues - be because CW have achieved a very laudable 300% growth in turnover in the last four years, but have only increased staffing levels by 30%?? Everyone's working their butts off back at base!
As far as I can tell, CW is not a watch maker, they are a design shop and marketing entity . . . .
Perhaps some of the pressure is being caused by CW not having the right/enough people to oversee their vendors.
What I don't like the most in this is the continuous barrage of email marketing coming from CW.
I have no interest in their other products.

I have always understood that CWL is indeed a watch maker following the merger in 2014 with Synergies Horlogères SA of Biel, following which the company announced their first in-house calibre the SH21. The second point is that CWL are also their own vendors (a phrase I took you to mean that they sell through retail outlets but this is not the case). The business model is based on internet marketing and direct sales to customers (hence the emails from which of course you may unsubscribe at any time) and the product is despatched directly from Maidenhead. Or have I somehow got this all wrong in which case I'll happily stand corrected?

Post by **Amor Vincit Omnia** » Tue Aug 08, 2023 4:58 pm

@NigelS Correct in that the watches are manufactured and assembled in Switzerland. If you visit HQ you will understand the limitations. It’s a sizeable old townhouse in central Maidenhead, but all the space is taken up with offices, meeting rooms, storage, various rooms to do with picking, packing and dispatch, a small workshop where servicing and repairs can be done, and of course the showroom.

And yes, anyone can opt out of marketing emails for any company. I bought my C12 at the beginning of June and I still get emails telling me to buy one. I got an email from a travel company the other day inviting me to book the holiday I have had booked for weeks. I booked my parking at Stansted recently and the following day received an email suggesting I book some airport parking. It’s the nature of the beast.

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