Bel Canto Phoenix

en_nissen · Post by **en_nissen** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 1:47 pm

aa_bcfc. wrote:I am the only one who doesn’t get the appeal of the BelCanto? If I am I must be missing something?

Not at all. I personally love the Bel Canto, but we all have different tastes.

I feel the same about most watches that can be described as a "GADA" watch, such as the C63 line. Sort of bland watches. Pretty good for a one-watch collection, but out of place in any collection with two or more watches imo.

But most collectors seem to love such watches, and while I don't share the feeling, it's good that there's something for us all.

MichaelMD · Post by **MichaelMD** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 1:49 pm

That's color works very well with this watch. I like it

JasH · Post by **JasH** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 9:04 pm

aa_bcfc. wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 12:21 pm I am the only one who doesn’t get the appeal of the BelCanto? If I am I must be missing something?

Not at all. Bel Canto is an unusual design and not for everyone. Equally there are some CW watches that never appealed to me e.g. the Tradetime. But I am glad of the variety that exists, and that CW continue to experiment and push boundaries.

Personally, Bel Canto just grabbed my attention the first moment I saw the original Azzurro and I ordered that immediately.

JasH · Post by **JasH** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 9:18 pm

Grand Seiko wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:43 pm Amazing color on the watch and car (the car must be crazy fun).
Thoroughly enjoyed the video (well, except the guy's grammar issues regarding uniqueness, something is or isn't, no qualifiers apply).
I was in a paid focus group recently and a guy with a 720S was talking about upgrading to a 750S. He was very transparent about the issues with the company (**** quality, **** resale, lousy customer service, plus others) and said flat out the driving experience overcomes the issues.

Glad you like both. Yes the car is hugely engaging, and I hope Richard's video brings that across to the viewer

You've brought up McLaren a number of times now, so I will comment on that this time

I had a 720S too, and it proved to be the most reliable car I ever owned. This 765LT has been bulletproof to date, and bear in mind it gets tracked and driven very hard.

Personally my experience with McLaren has been incredible, and I often describe them as the best company I've ever dealt with. Nothing has ever been too much trouble for them, and I was extremely happy to buy my second McLaren. Dealers do "vary" though, and there are good and bad ones. McLaren HQ are simply wonderful to deal with though. I visit MTC at Woking often, and can honestly say they feel like visiting family.

Regarding QC, yes early releases of most models did have issues, including launch edition 720S (mine was a later car). Artura is the same. But you will see exactly the same with Ferrari for example, where SF90 had a lot of issues initially, and so did 296GTB.

Depreciation, yes. I lost £100k on my 720S after 2.5 years. McLaren messed up and made far too many cars. They have learned from that and not done this for a few years now. Now however Ferrari are doing the same. See residuals on SF90, 296GTB and even 488. 488 depreciation is about the same as 720S. However my 765LT Spider has appreciated very nicely. It's all about numbers, and there are only around 35 of these in the UK now.

Anyway, back to the Bel Canto Phoenix, and I'm glad you like it. (btw less than 50 of the 99 will be in the UK)

P.S. I like the username. I have a Snowflake and a White Birch

JasH · Post by **JasH** » Sat Oct 21, 2023 9:20 pm

DavidCM wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:47 am Notice how much easier it is to read the time where the hands have been coloured black or dark blue in the photos above.

Yes, it was a deliberate choice to make the hands black

As I have an Azzurro and I struggle to read the time, and certainly can't read it at a glance. Silver hands merge with silver bridges.

Secondly, aesthetically black and orange work perfectly, as on the car.

Grand Seiko · Post by **Grand Seiko** » Sun Oct 22, 2023 7:31 pm

JasH wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 9:18 pm
Grand Seiko wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:43 pm Amazing color on the watch and car (the car must be crazy fun).
Thoroughly enjoyed the video (well, except the guy's grammar issues regarding uniqueness, something is or isn't, no qualifiers apply).
I was in a paid focus group recently and a guy with a 720S was talking about upgrading to a 750S. He was very transparent about the issues with the company (**** quality, **** resale, lousy customer service, plus others) and said flat out the driving experience overcomes the issues.
Glad you like both. Yes the car is hugely engaging, and I hope Richard's video brings that across to the viewer

You've brought up McLaren a number of times now, so I will comment on that this time

I had a 720S too, and it proved to be the most reliable car I ever owned. This 765LT has been bulletproof to date, and bear in mind it gets tracked and driven very hard.

Personally my experience with McLaren has been incredible, and I often describe them as the best company I've ever dealt with. Nothing has ever been too much trouble for them, and I was extremely happy to buy my second McLaren. Dealers do "vary" though, and there are good and bad ones. McLaren HQ are simply wonderful to deal with though. I visit MTC at Woking often, and can honestly say they feel like visiting family.

Regarding QC, yes early releases of most models did have issues, including launch edition 720S (mine was a later car). Artura is the same. But you will see exactly the same with Ferrari for example, where SF90 had a lot of issues initially, and so did 296GTB.

Depreciation, yes. I lost £100k on my 720S after 2.5 years. McLaren messed up and made far too many cars. They have learned from that and not done this for a few years now. Now however Ferrari are doing the same. See residuals on SF90, 296GTB and even 488. 488 depreciation is about the same as 720S. However my 765LT Spider has appreciated very nicely. It's all about numbers, and there are only around 35 of these in the UK now.

Anyway, back to the Bel Canto Phoenix, and I'm glad you like it. (btw less than 50 of the 99 will be in the UK)

P.S. I like the username. I have a Snowflake and a White Birch

Thank you sir, I enjoyed every word.
The key thing is your experience has been top of the table.
A few more points for balance here, I am a car junky (Second Gen NSX, Lexus LC500 Convertible, Lucid Air GT Performance with over 1000 HP) and if something was unreliable my wife would be giving it to me by the shovel full.
I like to use warranty costs as a general measure. Toyota spends 1% of sales on these costs. Now for the fun numbers, Ferrari is at 4.75% (agree the SF90 and 296 (including a stop sale on that model) have had way too many issues). For McLaren we have 5.5% (my understanding is the Artura launch included cars pretty much bricked from delivery and some cars having to be bought back).
You have excellent examples of what does well Grand Seiko. I have a GMT and a titanium Hi Beat diver.

Grand Seiko · Post by **Grand Seiko** » Wed Oct 25, 2023 10:23 pm

Now a few details on current Mclaren's financial reality show.
I also read in their financial report that they sold £100m worth of Heritage vehicles to get them through the problems they had launching the Artura.

19 October 2023 • 4:33pm

"McLaren has admitted it is reliant on more investment from its Bahraini owner to stay afloat after losses at the business more than doubled last year.

McLaren’s losses swelled from £135m in 2021 to £349m last year, newly published accounts show. It equates to a deficit of almost £140,000 per car produced last year as costs crept up and deliveries stalled.

Investors put £370m into the company between March and September this year, the accounts show, marking the third cash injection from owners in two years."

However, McLaren said it would require further cash infusions to stay in business for the next 12 months.

The need for more funds and the potential for more product delays “indicate a material uncertainty which may cast significant doubt over the Group’s and the Company’s ability to continue as a going concern”, directors warned.

aa_bcfc. · Post by **aa_bcfc.** » Thu Oct 26, 2023 7:28 am

en_nissen wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 1:47 pm
aa_bcfc. wrote:I am the only one who doesn’t get the appeal of the BelCanto? If I am I must be missing something?
Not at all. I personally love the Bel Canto, but we all have different tastes.

I feel the same about most watches that can be described as a "GADA" watch, such as the C63 line. Sort of bland watches. Pretty good for a one-watch collection, but out of place in any collection with two or more watches imo.

But most collectors seem to love such watches, and while I don't share the feeling, it's good that there's something for us all.

You are of course correct about all having different tastes. My C63 Sealander is one of the staples in my collection.

JasH · Post by **JasH** » Wed Nov 29, 2023 11:06 pm

Great news!

I am pleased to inform everyone that the Phoenix has now been scheduled for production, and we should receive our watches by the end of March.

Those who have an allocation will have received a detailed email from me a few minutes ago.

Grand Seiko · Post by **Grand Seiko** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:42 pm

These will be all stars
I wonder if YouTuber Shmee from the UK (also a McLaren guy) will do a version in his favorite color, cerulean blue.

JasH · Post by **JasH** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:11 pm

Grand Seiko wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:42 pm These will be all stars
I wonder if YouTuber Shmee from the UK (also a McLaren guy) will do a version in his favorite color, cerulean blue.

I'm not sure Tim is quite enough of a watch a guy to do that. Plus there are already three blue BCs now (Azzurro, Wave and Cielo).

Grand Seiko · Post by **Grand Seiko** » Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:51 pm

From what I have seen, Tim would do a lot of things if he could turn a buck on it.
OK them, Mr. JWW is a big watch guy and he did an Aston Martin SUV in a custom color.
Maybe he could be next up.
Off topic, the Seen Through Glass folks opined on the 765 LT and were over the moon about the driving experience.

Tufa · Post by **Tufa** » Fri Dec 01, 2023 12:20 am

Grand Seiko wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:42 pm These will be all stars
I wonder if YouTuber Shmee from the UK (also a McLaren guy) will do a version in his favorite color, cerulean blue.

Tim is usually wears Aventi. I guess sponsored or he invested in the business

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