Bel Canto Phoenix

Discuss Christopher Ward watches
en_nissen
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Re: Bel Canto Phoenix

Post by en_nissen »

aa_bcfc. wrote:I am the only one who doesn’t get the appeal of the BelCanto? If I am I must be missing something?
Not at all. I personally love the Bel Canto, but we all have different tastes.

I feel the same about most watches that can be described as a "GADA" watch, such as the C63 line. Sort of bland watches. Pretty good for a one-watch collection, but out of place in any collection with two or more watches imo.

But most collectors seem to love such watches, and while I don't share the feeling, it's good that there's something for us all.
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Re: Bel Canto Phoenix

Post by MichaelMD »

That's color works very well with this watch. I like it
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JasH
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Re: Bel Canto Phoenix

Post by JasH »

aa_bcfc. wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2023 12:21 pm I am the only one who doesn’t get the appeal of the BelCanto? If I am I must be missing something?
Not at all. Bel Canto is an unusual design and not for everyone. Equally there are some CW watches that never appealed to me e.g. the Tradetime. But I am glad of the variety that exists, and that CW continue to experiment and push boundaries.

Personally, Bel Canto just grabbed my attention the first moment I saw the original Azzurro and I ordered that immediately.
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Re: Bel Canto Phoenix

Post by JasH »

Grand Seiko wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:43 pm Amazing color on the watch and car (the car must be crazy fun).
Thoroughly enjoyed the video (well, except the guy's grammar issues regarding uniqueness, something is or isn't, no qualifiers apply).
I was in a paid focus group recently and a guy with a 720S was talking about upgrading to a 750S. He was very transparent about the issues with the company (**** quality, **** resale, lousy customer service, plus others) and said flat out the driving experience overcomes the issues.
Glad you like both. Yes the car is hugely engaging, and I hope Richard's video brings that across to the viewer :thumbup:

You've brought up McLaren a number of times now, so I will comment on that this time :)

I had a 720S too, and it proved to be the most reliable car I ever owned. This 765LT has been bulletproof to date, and bear in mind it gets tracked and driven very hard.

Personally my experience with McLaren has been incredible, and I often describe them as the best company I've ever dealt with. Nothing has ever been too much trouble for them, and I was extremely happy to buy my second McLaren. Dealers do "vary" though, and there are good and bad ones. McLaren HQ are simply wonderful to deal with though. I visit MTC at Woking often, and can honestly say they feel like visiting family.

Regarding QC, yes early releases of most models did have issues, including launch edition 720S (mine was a later car). Artura is the same. But you will see exactly the same with Ferrari for example, where SF90 had a lot of issues initially, and so did 296GTB.

Depreciation, yes. I lost £100k on my 720S after 2.5 years. McLaren messed up and made far too many cars. They have learned from that and not done this for a few years now. Now however Ferrari are doing the same. See residuals on SF90, 296GTB and even 488. 488 depreciation is about the same as 720S. However my 765LT Spider has appreciated very nicely. It's all about numbers, and there are only around 35 of these in the UK now.

Anyway, back to the Bel Canto Phoenix, and I'm glad you like it. (btw less than 50 of the 99 will be in the UK)

P.S. I like the username. I have a Snowflake and a White Birch :thumbup:
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Re: Bel Canto Phoenix

Post by JasH »

DavidCM wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:47 am Notice how much easier it is to read the time where the hands have been coloured black or dark blue in the photos above.
Yes, it was a deliberate choice to make the hands black :thumbup:

As I have an Azzurro and I struggle to read the time, and certainly can't read it at a glance. Silver hands merge with silver bridges.

Secondly, aesthetically black and orange work perfectly, as on the car.
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Re: Bel Canto Phoenix

Post by Grand Seiko »

JasH wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2023 9:18 pm
Grand Seiko wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:43 pm Amazing color on the watch and car (the car must be crazy fun).
Thoroughly enjoyed the video (well, except the guy's grammar issues regarding uniqueness, something is or isn't, no qualifiers apply).
I was in a paid focus group recently and a guy with a 720S was talking about upgrading to a 750S. He was very transparent about the issues with the company (**** quality, **** resale, lousy customer service, plus others) and said flat out the driving experience overcomes the issues.
Glad you like both. Yes the car is hugely engaging, and I hope Richard's video brings that across to the viewer :thumbup:

You've brought up McLaren a number of times now, so I will comment on that this time :)

I had a 720S too, and it proved to be the most reliable car I ever owned. This 765LT has been bulletproof to date, and bear in mind it gets tracked and driven very hard.

Personally my experience with McLaren has been incredible, and I often describe them as the best company I've ever dealt with. Nothing has ever been too much trouble for them, and I was extremely happy to buy my second McLaren. Dealers do "vary" though, and there are good and bad ones. McLaren HQ are simply wonderful to deal with though. I visit MTC at Woking often, and can honestly say they feel like visiting family.

Regarding QC, yes early releases of most models did have issues, including launch edition 720S (mine was a later car). Artura is the same. But you will see exactly the same with Ferrari for example, where SF90 had a lot of issues initially, and so did 296GTB.

Depreciation, yes. I lost £100k on my 720S after 2.5 years. McLaren messed up and made far too many cars. They have learned from that and not done this for a few years now. Now however Ferrari are doing the same. See residuals on SF90, 296GTB and even 488. 488 depreciation is about the same as 720S. However my 765LT Spider has appreciated very nicely. It's all about numbers, and there are only around 35 of these in the UK now.

Anyway, back to the Bel Canto Phoenix, and I'm glad you like it. (btw less than 50 of the 99 will be in the UK)

P.S. I like the username. I have a Snowflake and a White Birch :thumbup:
Thank you sir, I enjoyed every word.
The key thing is your experience has been top of the table.
A few more points for balance here, I am a car junky (Second Gen NSX, Lexus LC500 Convertible, Lucid Air GT Performance with over 1000 HP) and if something was unreliable my wife would be giving it to me by the shovel full.
I like to use warranty costs as a general measure. Toyota spends 1% of sales on these costs. Now for the fun numbers, Ferrari is at 4.75% (agree the SF90 and 296 (including a stop sale on that model) have had way too many issues). For McLaren we have 5.5% (my understanding is the Artura launch included cars pretty much bricked from delivery and some cars having to be bought back).
You have excellent examples of what does well Grand Seiko. I have a GMT and a titanium Hi Beat diver.
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Re: Bel Canto Phoenix

Post by Grand Seiko »

Now a few details on current Mclaren's financial reality show.
I also read in their financial report that they sold £100m worth of Heritage vehicles to get them through the problems they had launching the Artura.

19 October 2023 • 4:33pm

"McLaren has admitted it is reliant on more investment from its Bahraini owner to stay afloat after losses at the business more than doubled last year.

McLaren’s losses swelled from £135m in 2021 to £349m last year, newly published accounts show. It equates to a deficit of almost £140,000 per car produced last year as costs crept up and deliveries stalled.

Investors put £370m into the company between March and September this year, the accounts show, marking the third cash injection from owners in two years."

However, McLaren said it would require further cash infusions to stay in business for the next 12 months.

The need for more funds and the potential for more product delays “indicate a material uncertainty which may cast significant doubt over the Group’s and the Company’s ability to continue as a going concern”, directors warned.
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Re: Bel Canto Phoenix

Post by aa_bcfc. »

en_nissen wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2023 1:47 pm
aa_bcfc. wrote:I am the only one who doesn’t get the appeal of the BelCanto? If I am I must be missing something?
Not at all. I personally love the Bel Canto, but we all have different tastes.

I feel the same about most watches that can be described as a "GADA" watch, such as the C63 line. Sort of bland watches. Pretty good for a one-watch collection, but out of place in any collection with two or more watches imo.

But most collectors seem to love such watches, and while I don't share the feeling, it's good that there's something for us all.
You are of course correct about all having different tastes. My C63 Sealander is one of the staples in my collection.
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Bel Canto Phoenix update

Post by JasH »

Great news!

I am pleased to inform everyone that the Phoenix has now been scheduled for production, and we should receive our watches by the end of March.

Those who have an allocation will have received a detailed email from me a few minutes ago.
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Re: Bel Canto Phoenix

Post by Grand Seiko »

These will be all stars
I wonder if YouTuber Shmee from the UK (also a McLaren guy) will do a version in his favorite color, cerulean blue.
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Re: Bel Canto Phoenix

Post by JasH »

Grand Seiko wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:42 pm These will be all stars
I wonder if YouTuber Shmee from the UK (also a McLaren guy) will do a version in his favorite color, cerulean blue.
I'm not sure Tim is quite enough of a watch a guy to do that. Plus there are already three blue BCs now (Azzurro, Wave and Cielo).
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Re: Bel Canto Phoenix

Post by Grand Seiko »

From what I have seen, Tim would do a lot of things if he could turn a buck on it.
OK them, Mr. JWW is a big watch guy and he did an Aston Martin SUV in a custom color.
Maybe he could be next up.
Off topic, the Seen Through Glass folks opined on the 765 LT and were over the moon about the driving experience.
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Re: Bel Canto Phoenix

Post by Tufa »

Grand Seiko wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:42 pm These will be all stars
I wonder if YouTuber Shmee from the UK (also a McLaren guy) will do a version in his favorite color, cerulean blue.
Tim is usually wears Aventi. I guess sponsored or he invested in the business
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Re: Bel Canto Phoenix

Post by ralfybaby »

JasH wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2023 10:47 pm I am delighted to report that CW have agreed that I can share 1 image of the prototype Phoenix publicly......
Very nice. That is my favourite Bel Canto.
Not enough to want to own one as I have no need or desire for an hourly chime, but kudos to CW for putting one out.
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Re: Bel Canto Phoenix

Post by ralfybaby »

aa_bcfc. wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2023 12:21 pm I am the only one who doesn’t get the appeal of the BelCanto? If I am I must be missing something?
It is not something to want to own for me as for me a watch has to tell time, which the tiny actual dial it would not work for me and i don't have a need for a "sonnerie au passage," gorra love those watch terms.
But is is quite a horological tour de force and kudos to CW for putting one out in the realm of affordable-ish watches.
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