A question of balance

Discuss Christopher Ward watches
robinbarke
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 2868
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:42 pm
CW-watches: 7
Location: Lower Heyford, Oxon

Re: A question of balance

Post by robinbarke »

It would not be necessary to sacrifice top centre even on a chronograph. I've just looked at 15 A Lange & Sohne watch faces and many have very many dials but the logo is always top centre. Sometimes it is necessary to curve the logo round the perimeter of the dial. Christopher Ward could do the same and it would in my view look quite good.

Robin
C9GMT C8 Mk 1 C5 Malvern 2011 C9FLE C50 Malvern COSC C60 FLE2012 2013FLE
Oris Big Crown, Hublot, Rolex Datejust, Nomos Tangomat.


See my book, Aynho Junction, in the News section of http://www.robinbarkerphotography.com
Galton321
Forumgod
Forumgod
Posts: 872
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:45 am
CW-watches: 14
LE-one: yes
LE-two: yes
Location: Hampshire

Re: A question of balance

Post by Galton321 »

People have made lots of very good points. I will first say that I like the font it is very clean and makes no pretence to some traditional script implying a provenance going back to the late 19 Century! But it seems to tie your hands to insist that it will always be in a single place. Existing logos have been positioned to fit in with the design of the Face. Also the most prominent thing on the face should not be the makers mark. The controversy over Mr Kors is that the most important poiint is that Mr Kors is selling himself as a designer, the watches are almost incidental. While I'm sure that he has a design studio I believe he puts his initial on all sorts of stuff to which he has little design input. Chris has a talented new head designer who will understand design probably has a degree in art and design. He will know about balance and what rules are but more importantly how and when you can break the rules.I would consult him rather than some marketing guru. Last note I like the new logo on the C65 and think it completely changes the character of the watch. It looks like a new design not a Mk2 of an existing one. I don't mind the position although I think it is too prominent.
User avatar
Dancematt
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 7817
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:15 am
Location: Top secret hollow Volcano. Kent UK

Re: A question of balance

Post by Dancematt »

jtc wrote:Yeah it balances (one on the left, one on the right) but it's the amount of text that undoes that effort. The full "christopher ward" is visually larger than a window with "22" in it.
I agree - which is why to do this visually jarring left sided logo you NEED to balance the OTHER side ie the CW logo is long therefore you need a 2836 movement with a day date to balance it!

It is not balanced as it is. It is just off-putting. What makes it worse is the centering of the word 'automatic' which is in its commonly placed area.

If automatic were placed in tiny script above the 12 o' clock position and therefore cancelled out swiss made at the 6 o'clock you would achieve total dial balance and a sterile look

The logo where it is just looks wrong because it was put there only to 'shock'.
I miss all the great things that may never be.
User avatar
Dancematt
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 7817
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:15 am
Location: Top secret hollow Volcano. Kent UK

Re: A question of balance

Post by Dancematt »

The alternative is 6 o'clock dates - which work massively well to balance a logo at 12 but many brands don't want to pay the extra for the different date wheel, CW wouldn't.
I miss all the great things that may never be.
MrNice
Junior
Junior
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 9:00 am
CW-watches: 1

Re: A question of balance

Post by MrNice »

I just think that we naturally draw our attention to the dead centre of a watch and the majority of the time the brands logo or wording is at the 12 o'clock position, its just what we are familiar with.
So when looking at the new C65 and seeing firstly the unfamiliar position of text, followed by the actual unfamiliar wording i think it looks unbalanced..............and i'm not a huge fan of it at the moment, but i think in time when more watches are released and the unfamiliar becomes the familiar for Christopher Ward then i know i'll be a convert. I have warmed slightly to it since the bombshell dropped.
User avatar
Dancematt
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 7817
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:15 am
Location: Top secret hollow Volcano. Kent UK

Re: A question of balance

Post by Dancematt »

Not perfect because I stole the day/date from the C9 and didn't resize it.

Image

To add; CW have a real problem with day/dates! They must hate them! How many 7750 models have their been? And only one day/date amongst them!
I miss all the great things that may never be.
User avatar
Tyke
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 5944
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:47 pm
CW-watches: 0

Re: A question of balance

Post by Tyke »

This issue for me is the amount of empty space created by moving the logo. You are moving a logo from the top which occupies a much larger dial space % wise because it spreads across the entire dial width to an area on the dial that is smaller because of the centre hands location. Leaving the space under 12 o'clock leaves a large expanse of dial empty, whilst cramming in a logo at 9 o'clock can make that area look cramped, leading to an unbalance look IMO.

They shouldn't be moving the logo simply to be different, they should only move it to be better than what they had before.
User avatar
Magnus
Forumgod
Forumgod
Posts: 999
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:45 am
CW-watches: 7
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Re: A question of balance

Post by Magnus »

Doesn't look balanced IMO

Image
2015 FLE, 2013 FLE, C60 Black, C11 Makaira Pro 500 Blue, C8 Pilot Mk II, , C7 Rapide MK I, C4 Battle of Britain Memorial Flight.
Corum Admirals Cup
Stowa 1938 Chronograph
Vintage Certina
Tag Heuer F1
Galton321
Forumgod
Forumgod
Posts: 872
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:45 am
CW-watches: 14
LE-one: yes
LE-two: yes
Location: Hampshire

Re: A question of balance

Post by Galton321 »

See http://nwrain.net/~tersiisky/design/balance.html Seems CWL are going for asymmetrical balance but failing. Reading this it seems that most people have come to right conclusion by intuition!
User avatar
Timinwales
Senior
Senior
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:11 pm
CW-watches: 3
Location: Like it says on the tin

Re: A question of balance

Post by Timinwales »

Dancematt wrote:Not perfect because I stole the day/date from the C9 and didn't resize it.

Image

To add; CW have a real problem with day/dates! They must hate them! How many 7750 models have their been? And only one day/date amongst them!
Got to say though with a two line aligned left logo, that size of day date or there abouts is what is needed to provide an element of balance to the watch...
CW C11 extreme
CW C60 Pro (auto)
CW C60 COSC MK1
Auto~Hamilton Khaki Field~Stienhart Ocean1(Premium Blue)~Seiko Blumo~Garrard Vintage~SKX013~Orient Field
Solar~Citizen Nighthawk(Ti)~Seiko Solar Dive
Quartz~Sector Chrono~Rotary Sub~Luminox SEAL (Ti)
User avatar
Magnus
Forumgod
Forumgod
Posts: 999
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:45 am
CW-watches: 7
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Re: A question of balance

Post by Magnus »

Dancematt wrote:Not perfect because I stole the day/date from the C9 and didn't resize it.

Image

To add; CW have a real problem with day/dates! They must hate them! How many 7750 models have their been? And only one day/date amongst them!
Yeah, this works better for me. You are not automatically focusing in on the empty space at 12.
2015 FLE, 2013 FLE, C60 Black, C11 Makaira Pro 500 Blue, C8 Pilot Mk II, , C7 Rapide MK I, C4 Battle of Britain Memorial Flight.
Corum Admirals Cup
Stowa 1938 Chronograph
Vintage Certina
Tag Heuer F1
User avatar
tempusmaximus
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 19245
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:37 pm
CW-watches: 1
Location: UK

Re: A question of balance

Post by tempusmaximus »

Timinwales wrote:
Dancematt wrote:Not perfect because I stole the day/date from the C9 and didn't resize it.

Image

To add; CW have a real problem with day/dates! They must hate them! How many 7750 models have their been? And only one day/date amongst them!
Got to say though with a two line aligned left logo, that size of day date or there abouts is what is needed to provide an element of balance to the watch...
That does look better imo .
Bernie
User avatar
nigelb001
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 1135
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:47 pm
CW-watches: 1
Location: South Wales

Re: A question of balance

Post by nigelb001 »

Magnus wrote:Doesn't look balanced IMO

Image
No it doesn't look balanced. But your box for text is actually too large compared to the date box and is too close to the edge. Also spaced text has less 'weight' than a solid box so may balance better.

I agree that the picture with the day/date above is much more balanced and works.
CW C7 Rapide / Breitling Top Time + Superocean / Laco Memmingen
Tissot PRS516 Auto + PRS516 Chrono / Seiko Padi Turtle
User avatar
Kip
The Administrator
The Administrator
Posts: 35171
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:45 pm
CW-watches: 150
LE-one: yes
LE-two: yes
LE-three: yes
LE-foura: yes
LE-fourb: yes
LE-five: yes
LE-six: yes
LESeven: yes
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: A question of balance

Post by Kip »

Thanks for the responses. I was trying to keep this away from the specific CW logo and only about the balance of the dial appearance. Many good points.

It would seem to me, from many of you, that much of the visual balance rejection can be due to the logo type/style itself and that lends one to reject visually the positioning. Some reject the balance because it is not what we are accustomed to seeing.

My simple conclusion is that regardless of the logo that CW would use (V1, V2 or V3) is that you would still find the 9 o'clock placement unsatisfactory although, if you liked the current logo if might be better, or perhaps more acceptable, visually.


I like this dial visually, because it is different. Would you consider this a balanced dial?

Photo borrowed from Revolution
Image

or how about this...

Photo borrowed from ablogtowatch
Image


Is this considered more balanced or acceptable because the logo is at 12?

Photo borrowed from QP Magazine
Image

Having a quick look at my collection, I find top, right and bottom alignments, but no left aligned logos.
Kip

"Asylum Administrator"


Visit the CWArchives for everything CW. Historical, specs, manuals and resale. It is all there.
User avatar
Dancematt
Senior Forumgod
Senior Forumgod
Posts: 7817
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:15 am
Location: Top secret hollow Volcano. Kent UK

Re: A question of balance

Post by Dancematt »

Kip wrote:Thanks for the responses. I was trying to keep this away from the specific CW logo and only about the balance of the dial appearance. Many good points.

It would seem to me, from many of you, that much of the visual balance rejection can be due to the logo type/style itself and that lends one to reject visually the positioning. Some reject the balance because it is not what we are accustomed to seeing.

My simple conclusion is that regardless of the logo that CW would use (V1, V2 or V3) is that you would still find the 9 o'clock placement unsatisfactory although, if you liked the current logo if might be better, or perhaps more acceptable, visually.


I like this dial visually, because it is different. Would you consider this a balanced dial?

Photo borrowed from Revolution
Image

or how about this...

Photo borrowed from ablogtowatch
Image


Is this considered more balanced or acceptable because the logo is at 12?

Photo borrowed from QP Magazine
Image

Having a quick look at my collection, I find top, right and bottom alignments, but no left aligned logos.
Yes it is visually more pleasing to the eye to have a logo at 12 o'clock - this is the place where a brands logo can have the strongest impact and asserts itself. The eye is drawn to the logo and it's where it is strongest.

The VC logo is there, i imagine, because long ago, they decided the visual strength of their logo would be undermined if it were curved (say around that subdial). Indeed I have never seen it curved unless it is it almost squished out by complications. That would potentially undermine it's design and impact to do it for one watch when it has never been done before. They don't want to mess with their logo.
I miss all the great things that may never be.
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post